Standards of earning a Black Belt?

[still learning]

Hello, If you had a chance to be on a committee to form standards for earning a Black Belt? What would you recommend for all school in the USA?

Should there also be an age limits, time limits, what physcial test would you add? Will board/brick breaking be included, and should they sparr w/one and against multiple attackers.

In my old Shotokan School, my Sensi wanted me to sparr two minutes with Seven black belts,one at a time, before he gave a Black Belt. The object wasn't to win? ..but not to quit! and test your skill at the same time. We ended up testing another way. ........Aloha

 

[Kacey]

As nice as it would be to have a set, objective standard for black belt that included all styles and arts that presents one, I don't think you can do it. How do you compare across styles? Age? Physical ability? Improvement from beginner? Differences in patterns/kata/tul/poomse/whatever you call forms? Differences in technique? Hard style vs. soft style? Weapons vs. open hand? Etc....

 

[SFC JeffJ]

The school I go to for my jujitsu (they also teach shotokan and have a TKD instructor come in as well) won't promote anyone to shodan till they are 18. I think it might have started as a knee jerk reaction to the 7 year old black belts at another school here. It seems to work for them, but I'm not really sure why. I'll look into it and post thier resoning if anyone would be interested.

 

[evenflow1121]

Hello, If you had a chance to be on a committee to form standards for earning a Black Belt? What would you recommend for all school in the USA?

Should there also be an age limits, time limits, what physcial test would you add? Will board/brick breaking be included, and should they sparr w/one and against multiple attackers.

In my old Shotokan School, my Sensi wanted me to sparr two minutes with Seven black belts,one at a time, before he gave a Black Belt. The object wasn't to win? ..but not to quit! and test your skill at the same time. We ended up testing another way. ........Aloha

Good questions, I think that you should in the least know how to defend yourself well against one attacker in a hand to hand situation. If you dont have that I wouldnt grant it. Of course this is my interpretation, a bb means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. As far as bricks and boards, not really a necessity, but sparring definately a must.

 

[Rich Parsons]

A few years ago, a NY State Senator I believe initiated a bill to get a standard set, and to ahve a board of review. The reason for this was to address a single issue of one instructor who had sexually assaulted some of his students. As opposed to changing those laws they tried other ways. :rollseyes:

Yet, what they had in place was a board (* Number to be set in the future *) of people of 5th degree or higher to rate those of 3rd degree or higher for the title of Instructor. The Instructor would be a state licensed instructor in the Martial Arts.

If you wanted to be a school owner you had to be a 5th degree as well.


When I wrote to them via e-mail and also called, as many states take legislation from other states and bring them over. I did not want this for MI or anywhere, I brought up arts that do not have rank in degrees. I also mentioned that some have a 0 degree while others only go up to nine and some to 12 and many to ten and one to 15. Who is this fair to pick these numbers for your reviews?

I also brought up the fact that different cultures do things differntly, and the review of techinque for this was also required, would be interpreted differently. Soft techniques would look bad to a hard stylist, as well as Vice versa. Also where a Linear system would not look right to a circular system, and same in the other direction.

I asked what will happen for the board? Will all arts be represented? Will the board be by culture only or by art only?


So, I do not think it is possible to have universal standards.


That being said I always enjoy watching a testing, even if the standards are different, it is educational to me.

My requirements are a warm fuzzy, on how the teach, how they spar, single and multiple as well as perform their techniques. There are minimum requirements for techniques required, as well as at what level of performance, but I struggle to put it in words, that properly fo it justice.

I wish you great luck in this struggle, and hopefully I can learn from others here on this.

Thanks

 

[bushidomartialarts]

my standards are fairly simple:

has this person improved by an order of magnitude since they set out as a white belt?

i don't believe in objective, rigid requirements. a talented athlete or experienced practitioner could breeze through, while a devoted person with little natural ability might find it impossible.

a little funny coming from a kenpo guy with all our charts and systems, but if it's a choice between the curriculum and the student, my student wins every time.

 

[still learning]

Hello, I agree it will be impossible to set a National Standards for requirements for earning a Black Belt!

Your own beliefs will affect your thoughts on what a Black belt should be. No two people will agree on the requirements and measurements to earn a Black belt.

Is it wrong to give 5 and 6 years olds a black belt? ...........Aloha

 

[Hand Sword]

First, I feel that it is wrong for 5 and 6 yr. olds to have blackbelts. It should take that long constantly practicing to earn one. As for testing requirements, I would want to see solid basics executed confidentally, with speed, power, and accuracy. There should also be a nice flow going on, as one is going through them.

 

[DeLamar.J]

Hello, If you had a chance to be on a committee to form standards for earning a Black Belt? What would you recommend for all school in the USA?

Should there also be an age limits, time limits, what physcial test would you add? Will board/brick breaking be included, and should they sparr w/one and against multiple attackers.

In my old Shotokan School, my Sensi wanted me to sparr two minutes with Seven black belts,one at a time, before he gave a Black Belt. The object wasn't to win? ..but not to quit! and test your skill at the same time. We ended up testing another way. ........Aloha

The standards should be very high. If the standards are not high then the rank looses its value, because the ones who are very skilled get grouped next to people who they are clearly more proficient than. There should be a universal standard that must be met to get a black belt. The rank should not be given because of heart or attitude, and performance should be 90% of the issue. Martial arts is not all about fighting, but it has alot to do with fighting. If it were not for fighting then why all of the fighting techniques, to make you feel tougher than you are? So you can have a black belt because you try hard but cannot deliver?
This is what lowers the value of a black belt these days. When you have a black belt that cant even fight effectively against another decent fighter, we have a big problem.

 

[terryl965]

First off there is no way a committee is ever going to be in place, secondly we here in America have to many style to be united on anything let alone Martial Arts. Anybody who has put in the time and trains for 2 hrs a day 6 days a week for 4-6 and can demostrate there own ability for there skill level deserves one. They don't need to be able to kick every one's *** and they need to understand the value of the techs along with the belt.
Terry

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Hello, If you had a chance to be on a committee to form standards for earning a Black Belt? What would you recommend for all school in the USA?

Should there also be an age limits, time limits, what physcial test would you add? Will board/brick breaking be included, and should they sparr w/one and against multiple attackers.

In my old Shotokan School, my Sensi wanted me to sparr two minutes with Seven black belts,one at a time, before he gave a Black Belt. The object wasn't to win? ..but not to quit! and test your skill at the same time. We ended up testing another way. ........Aloha

I think that rank should be considered what it is: your level within your school, style and association and nothing else. Rank is relative from system to system and it is not uncommon for adults in Japan, Okinawa and Korea to earn dan ranking in a year or less. There is NO objective standard of rank possible, IMO. Also, do you think that someone should have to be able to go toe to toe with professional fighters before being awarded a first degree Black Belt? I don't think so. I've met 12 year old ATA (a group noted for quick promotions) first degree black belts who displayed more maturity and character than many "old school" traditional Karate Masters. Could they beat the "Karate Master" in a fight? Probably, or even certainly, not, but that is a moot point - unlike the child-men Masters I speak of, they do not initiate confrontations.

 

[Grenadier]

Different strokes for different folks. One system's standards should certainly not be imposed upon another system, unless the top people within the style give their approval.

Even within a particular system, the requirements can vary somewhat. While there will most likely be a universal set of standards within that style, such as being able to perform all of the kata, waza, and even some kumite requirements, how one particular yudansha candidate performs in each of those categories is going to vary. Let's face it; you're going to have some students who might never really be polished up compared to some of your other students, but at the same time, their individual achievements and individual improvements are what merit the promotion.


If someone really wants to get a "universally" accepted black belt, then he can go for a WKF ranking:

http://www.usankf.org/f56/F6/F6B/f6b_5_CERTIFICATION/f6b_5_3_Certification/f6b_5_3_%202_TechDan.htm

Even then, there will be many folks who simply won't recognize a WKF ranking, and that's their choice.

 

[kamishinkan]

It is evident by the few posts here that ideas of what a Black Belt is could never be universal. In our art, the black belt holder (Shodan, 1st degree) is just at the beginning. They have spent the last 3-4 years just learning the BASICS so they can now be truly trained. I like this idea because it "weeds out" the people training for the wrong reasons. Can the 1st degree BB "hold their own"?, probably. But this is not the point. In America, many times we put too many high standards on the black belt, I feel that it should be what it was intended to be, the beginning of an adventure of training.
Just a thought.:asian:

 

[still learning]

Hello, How do we maintain it's high value? ...........?

Visit any martial art tournment,different schools,systems and look at all the black belts there? Makes you wonder sometimes? ...I wonder at myself to? .....in pigeon english: How can? ......translation: How can that person be a black belt? ........If can? I can! .....Aloha ( do you need translation for last part?)

 

[Hand Sword]

One part that might help is for every school to take out the commercialization aspect, stop giving out belts, and ease up on the training, and go back to the old school way of doing things! (LOL- Like this would ever happen again!) Money ruins everything-- LOL !!!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

i trained in the 'old school way', where schools used to brag about how few black belts they produced in a year. i run my school the 'new school way', where i believe it's my job to help every student who comes to my school get a black belt.

not all of them want or accept my help, in the long run. some do. the idea that a black belt curriculum should somehow 'weed out' those unsuited seems to me to be missing the point.

as a martial arts teacher, it's my job to help people evolve. if i weed someone out, then congratulate myself on how tough my program is, i have failed at my job and i have failed as a martial arts teacher.

now, to be clear, my black belts work and work hard for it. they fullfill all manner of assignments designed to be difficult for the individual. i'd set 'em up toe to toe as fighters, healers or philosphers against any fresh shodan up or down the pike. and it's my job as a teacher to be willing to take anybody from whoever they were when they walked in and turn them into that.

 

[Hand Sword]

That's truly awesome! It's a shame that doesn't go across the board. Looking at the whole picture though, I would say that although they were few back then, they were probably better than the average one today. The training was tougher over all, and it took a longer committment to training to get a BB.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

i agree that in the past a black belt was a better fighter. i'm unconvinced they were better people. the respect, personal discipline, open-mindedness, humility and personal effectiveness seem to be stronger these days than in the past.

combat isn't the gift of karate. it's only the wrapper.

 

[HKphooey]

When I first began my training 18 years ago, there was a student at our school that had MS and was confined to a wheelchair. He had progressed through the ranks and for obvious reasons could not use his legs for kicks. When it came time to test, he would verbally mention the kick when it should happen and proceed with the form or technique. In certain situations he could defend himself, but ultimately he could never beat a black belt in good health. To say we should compare him to that black belt, would be unfair in many ways. Did he train just as hard? Did he overcome obstacles? Did he put his time in? Did he struggle with material? I think I can answer yes to those questions and would even make the statement that he did so even more. He is the person that I think of anytime I think of quitting or giving up. Truth is, it WOULD be unfair to compare the two _ think the young man endured more hardship and struggle in his life than the “healthy” black belt ever would.

I agree with a comment made above. Access the student at the beginning and judge him and her on their progression. I commend any individual who does not let “disabilities” get in the way. They are the true standard we should compare ourselves too.

 

[MJS]

Hello, If you had a chance to be on a committee to form standards for earning a Black Belt? What would you recommend for all school in the USA?

Should there also be an age limits, time limits, what physcial test would you add? Will board/brick breaking be included, and should they sparr w/one and against multiple attackers.

In my old Shotokan School, my Sensi wanted me to sparr two minutes with Seven black belts,one at a time, before he gave a Black Belt. The object wasn't to win? ..but not to quit! and test your skill at the same time. We ended up testing another way. ........Aloha

I think it would be pretty hard to standardize all arts, but I'd have to say that some of the qualities would be:

1) At least 16 yrs. of age.

2) Have a solid understanding of the material

3) Have the knowledge to teach the material

4) Be dedicated to the art

5) Be able to perform the material and make it work


As for the other things that you mention...again, its going to vary from school to school, but IMHO, I think it would be a benefit to be as well rounded as you possibly could be.

Mike