What is this weapon called?

[DX6channel]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hello,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ihave some questions about how to use a certain weapon. Its the (really)long-handled sword the good guy uses in this video:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Itried to use one in a Star Wars lightsaber fight I made but I'm nothappy with the results. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hereis the video.[/FONT]
http://vimeo.com/17041718

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Myquestion are:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Whatis that thing called[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Howdo I learn to use it (what styles and weapons are similar).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thanks,Max[/FONT]

 

[Chris Parker]

You're kidding, right? It's called video game fantasy sword number 734.

As there is no art listed on your profile, I'm going to assume that you don't actually train in any martial art, yeah? Honestly, us giving you details about anything similar probably just won't help you, as the closest I can think of (Nagamaki) are very rare, found pretty much only in Koryu systems, which would mean you'd need to either be incredibly lucky, or move to Japan to even have a chance at learning it, and if you're reasons are in any way related to this Star Wars fantasy choreography, you have no chance of getting into a school that would teach it. Additionally, it's considered a high level weapon in the systems I know that still teach it, so you'd be learning it some 10 or 15 years down the track.

My advice, if my assumptions are correct, is to get to a stage combat school and focus on that side of things. Martial arts are very different, and the real usage of weapons is not found in video games or movies.

 

[Tez3]

Chris, you know that's called a thingy, the other one is a whatsit. :jediduel:

 

[Grenadier]

There are all sorts of polearms that have somewhat longer blades than what you see in "normal" spears. Some naginata out there have blades of 2' long.

There are a fair number of martial arts instructors who teach naginata. This may be your best bet.

If you're actually looking for a weapon that has a long sword-length blade on it, and are trying to find a teacher, you're going to be out of luck.

I can tell you right away, that such a weapon is going to be horribly unbalanced, unwieldy, and simply impractical.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Hello,
Ihave some questions about how to use a certain weapon. Its the (really)long-handled sword the good guy uses in this video:

Itried to use one in a Star Wars lightsaber fight I made but I'm nothappy with the results.
Hereis the video.
http://vimeo.com/17041718

Myquestion are:
Whatis that thing called
and
Howdo I learn to use it (what styles and weapons are similar).
Thanks,Max

Nice video. I loved the editing. Fight choreography was a bit shakey IMO but the editing was very nicely done.

Regarding the youtube clip, it's a made up fantasy weapon. Closest I can think of is a naginata.
Most of the information I can find on it appears to focus on the pole-arm version, not the 2 handed 'sword-like' version though.
I couldn't locate anyone currently teaching the techniques for it.

I did also find this
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/photos/items/11/002111/ph-0.jpg
which is listed as a Laos sword or Dha.
Again, not familiar with any existing style that actively teaches the techniques to use it correctly.

 

[Buka]

I think it's called a Panamanian Pantswetter, sometimes only referred to by initials.

 

[clfsean]

Da Do... Jahn Ma Do... closest in CMA.

But for the the video game... no such critter. Seriously. It's just a game with made up tools based loosely on medival weapons. Not real or historical.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hello,
Ihave some questions about how to use a certain weapon. Its the (really)long-handled sword the good guy uses in this video:

Itried to use one in a Star Wars lightsaber fight I made but I'm nothappy with the results.
Hereis the video.
http://vimeo.com/17041718

Myquestion are:
Whatis that thing called
and
Howdo I learn to use it (what styles and weapons are similar).
Thanks,Max

I don't know what Bioware calls it, but it looks like a hybrid weapon with a haft like a naginata and the blade of a claymore. Learning to use it specifically is not a possibility, as it does not exist, but a naginata would be as close as you are likely to get.

 

[Indagator]

Hello,
Ihave some questions about how to use a certain weapon. Its the (really)long-handled sword the good guy uses in this video:

Itried to use one in a Star Wars lightsaber fight I made but I'm nothappy with the results.
Hereis the video.
http://vimeo.com/17041718

Myquestion are:
Whatis that thing called
and
Howdo I learn to use it (what styles and weapons are similar).
Thanks,Max

Have one made for you, or make one for yourself, make up a name for it and screw around with it in the back yard til you find some stuff that works with it. Seriously I think that's your best option, man.

If you're wanting to do more than just tool around with it a bit, then you're probably going to have to let this one go...

[edited to add: DON'T HURT YOURSELF OR OTHERS!!!]

 

[Twin Fist]

look up the SCA

you will learn all about how to use weapons, both real and not so real.

be advised, bruises are par for the course.

When i played int eh SCA, i used something close to the sword in the game video. Called it a nagamaki. won a lot of fights with it too.

 

[Chris Parker]

Right, to jump back into this, to those that mentioned Naginata, thanks, but no.

A Naginata is a short blade on a long shaft, it is very well balanced, very maneouverable, and a lot of fun. What is shown is far closer to the weapon I mentioned at the beginning, which is a Nagamaki. These weapons are more like a sword with a very long handle, and, due to that unwieldy aspect, were not common or preferred by many (Oda Nobunaga's troops being a notable exception). In usage and dimensions, the Nagamaki is a far closer match.

 

[thegatekeeper]

Haha, is this guy for real? It's a game dude

 

[DX6channel]

Sorry guys, I didn't make myself clear (I spend most of my time on filmmaking forums). I wanted to know what styles and/or weapons are similar because I have a film coming up that uses one and I am unsure about how to choreograph it. Max

 

[Twin Fist]

pretend it is a staff, and plan your moves accordingly

 

[Chris Parker]

Sorry guys, I didn't make myself clear (I spend most of my time on filmmaking forums). I wanted to know what styles and/or weapons are similar because I have a film coming up that uses one and I am unsure about how to choreograph it. Max

Honestly, that doesn't change things. If you're looking to choreograph things, look to stage combat and fight choreography, not martial traditions. The difference is just too big. There is no way you would be able to learn enough for it to be usable in less than half a decade, before that you just aren't familiar enough with the subtleties and nuances. Additionally, actual usage is just not designed to be visually impressive, it's designed to work. Often the usage aims to have an encounter over with a single action, not a drawn-out confrontation, and as a result, just doesn't look good on screen.

There are a number of clips I could link for you, but honestly, you wouldn't understand what you were looking at, and all you could do is mis-represent what you were shown, so I won't. Focus on creativity and drama. Fight choreography isn't about the moves, it's about telling a story, which I'm sure you already know. Block out a story, then find movements (even if completely made up and impractical, or realistically baseless) that you feel best suit that story.

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult here, but you have to understand you've wandered onto a martial arts forum, where the members tend to take such things rather seriously, particularly when it comes to weapon usage. If you were asking about learning how to use a particular weapon, then there would be more support, but the first questions would be "where are you?" and "is there a school/teacher nearby?", followed by telling you, if there isn't a teacher, you can't learn it. By coming here and asking about actual weapon use to help you choreograph a film sequence, that's not what we deal with here. It's kinda anathema, really.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

By coming here and asking about actual weapon use to help you choreograph a film sequence, that's not what we deal with here. It's kinda anathema, really.

I kind of disagree with some of this. I think that him coming here to ask questions about A) identifying a weapon and B) asking about its use to help him choreograph a flim sequence should not be considered anathema.

Given that we all enjoy a cinematic martial arts film, I think that we should be encouraging. I think that it is good that he is actually researching the weapon in question.

I think that beyond identification of the weapon and maybe pointing him to some video content, there isn't a whole lot that we can do. Regarding what he could learn for a film shoot, the basic way that the weapon is used and some basic postures would add at least a small measure of authenticity to the sequence.

Really, none of the actors in the Karate Kid (the real one, not the Will Smith thing) knew karate, but they were taught enough to be able to lend an authentic feel to the film, and they sure didn't spend half a decade doing it.

Focus on creativity and drama. Fight choreography isn't about the moves, it's about telling a story, which I'm sure you already know. Block out a story, then find movements (even if completely made up and impractical, or realistically baseless) that you feel best suit that story.

I totally agree, but in order to do this, he needs some basis of how the weapon works.

Daniel

 

[Chris Parker]

I kind of disagree with some of this. I think that him coming here to ask questions about A) identifying a weapon and B) asking about its use to help him choreograph a flim sequence should not be considered anathema.

Given that we all enjoy a cinematic martial arts film, I think that we should be encouraging. I think that it is good that he is actually researching the weapon in question.

I think that beyond identification of the weapon and maybe pointing him to some video content, there isn't a whole lot that we can do. Regarding what he could learn for a film shoot, the basic way that the weapon is used and some basic postures would add at least a small measure of authenticity to the sequence.

Really, none of the actors in the Karate Kid (the real one, not the Will Smith thing) knew karate, but they were taught enough to be able to lend an authentic feel to the film, and they sure didn't spend half a decade doing it.

Ah, some clarification then. What I meant was asking about training in traditional weaponry usage in order to use it in choreography is fine, but answering it seriously in that fashion is considered anathema from a traditional weaponry perspective, not that simply asking about it is anathema. This gets magnified when the weapon asked about is a fantasy video game one.

I totally agree, but in order to do this, he needs some basis of how the weapon works.

Daniel

Not necessarily. Nick Gillard, choreographer for the three Star Wars prequels, looked to such influences as tennis strokes. Creativity is the better trait to have... even to the point of knowing how it's supposed to be used stopping a choreographer from coming up with a range of visually pleasing (although combatively questionable) movements because they don't fit with the proper usage.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Not necessarily. Nick Gillard, choreographer for the three Star Wars prequels, looked to such influences as tennis strokes. Creativity is the better trait to have... even to the point of knowing how it's supposed to be used stopping a choreographer from coming up with a range of visually pleasing (although combatively questionable) movements because they don't fit with the proper usage.

He also looked at kendo and western fencing. Not to mention that the sword is a pretty embedded part of western culture. While it takes serious training to use it correctly, pretty much everyone knows the basic motion of a sword. Since they were light sabers, things like blocking with the correct part of the sword or cutting with proper hasuji were no longer a consideration, which meant that things like tennis strokes could then be integrated into the style.

However, in the first movie, Darth and Ben maintained guard postures that at least resembled a traditional guard, though that is another part of sword work that is well embedded in western consciousness; anyone who has watched any cartoons or a three musketeers or Zorro movie will know, 'on guard!' and approximately what it looks like.

For Attack of the clones and Revenge of the Sith, I know that Hayden Christiansen trained in Haidong Gumdo. Liam Neeson and Christopher Lee already had a very solid background in stage sword fighting and Ray Park already had martial training of some kind. Not sure about Ewan Macgregor or Samuel L. Jackson.

Postures for hafted weapons are not as much a part of common western culture in our day, particularly when discussing such weapons which are of Asian origin.

Again, I do agree with the thrust of what you are saying; I simply think that there is some room to offer a modicum of guidance to someone with a question of this nature. Honestly, I'd rather have him ask people who practice actual weapon work than have him go to the SCA.

 

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, there were other things Nick looked at, but no coherence to it, honestly. The tennis strokes, by the way, were for deflecting lasers (think Obi Wan knocking bolts back at the droids in Phantom Menace... or have I watched them a bit too much?), and such things wouldn't be thought of if just proper weapon use was looked at. The first movies were choreographed by the late, great Bob Anderson, who was much more a sword purist than Nick is. Nick's a stunt and fight choreographer, Bob was a swordsman and fencer who fell into movies.

I still don't think anything we could offer will genuinely help, honestly. Nagamaki, for instance, requires you to hold the weapon to actually understand how the weapon works, and why the techniques are the way they are, simply watching videos doesn't actually do it. And unless young Max is wanting to spend the next 5 to 10 years working on learning a weapon, he's not going to get enough to have any real impact in his choreography. The only way that actual proper usage of the weapons would help would be if he was looking at a historical style choreography, such as in The Last Samurai, and with the fact that he's asking about a video game weapon, I highly doubt that.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yeah, there were other things Nick looked at, but no coherence to it, honestly. The tennis strokes, by the way, were for deflecting lasers (think Obi Wan knocking bolts back at the droids in Phantom Menace... or have I watched them a bit too much?), and such things wouldn't be thought of if just proper weapon use was looked at. The first movies were choreographed by the late, great Bob Anderson, who was much more a sword purist than Nick is. Nick's a stunt and fight choreographer, Bob was a swordsman and fencer who fell into movies.

That explains why I enjoyed the lightsaber sequences in the first two Star Wars movies but hated the third (meaning Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi). Not to mention that the writing of the first two movies was much stronger than the third, which was much stronger than any of the prequels.

I still don't think anything we could offer will genuinely help, honestly. Nagamaki, for instance, requires you to hold the weapon to actually understand how the weapon works, and why the techniques are the way they are, simply watching videos doesn't actually do it. And unless young Max is wanting to spend the next 5 to 10 years working on learning a weapon, he's not going to get enough to have any real impact in his choreography. The only way that actual proper usage of the weapons would help would be if he was looking at a historical style choreography, such as in The Last Samurai, and with the fact that he's asking about a video game weapon, I highly doubt that.

As I said, I think that beyond identification of the weapon and maybe pointing him to some video content, there isn't a whole lot that we can do. Now that he at least knows an analogue to the weapon, he should be able to seek out some sources on his own.