What is circle punch?

[JowGaWolf]

I think I might have problem if I miss the opponent's face and hit the skull!!! People do move back and fore after you commit to a strike, if the opponent dug down a little, I'd be hitting the side of the skull and that will hurt.

This is where you'll need to learn some actual techniques. The techniques greatly reduce the chances of that happening. Hitting the skull isn't even an issue if you are fighting someone much taller.

But over all the striking techniques make a difference. The video of the guy with his students shows him throwing 2 punches and not 1 punch. There are also body motions and footwork techniques. There's more to the punch than just swinging the arms. All of it together greatly reduces the risk of hitting the skull.

Realistically you can bust your hand with a jab. That's why it's important to be able to target and time punches and movement. That way you hit what you are targeting. If you just swing wildly then expect lots of hand injuries.

 

[JowGaWolf]

.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I might get there starting out hitting lightly on the pole. That's how I started with the knuckles and shin and elbow. Now they can take the hard hit.

Hit the bag not the pole

Boxers never hit wood or poles and they still get really good knuckle conditioning without the damage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My main fear is the skull, they are as hard as the pole!!! It's better to take a little pain at a time than to hit the skull and disabled for a long time breaking the knuckle.

You have to get over this. You don't have to worry about this if you are really good with setting up your punches and attacks.

Your fear of breaking you hand is causing you to focus too much on making your knuckles hard.

 

[Flying Crane]

A head has give because it is perched on a wobbly neck. A thick pole does not. Hitting a skull is not the same as hitting a wood pole.

stop hitting the pole.

 

[Alan0354]

Guys, I am back.....from all the skin blisters, peelings and more major, my right knee. I saw the doctor yesterday, got a magic shot(Cortisone) and it's magic. I hardly feel any pain after a full session of exercise lasting over 3 hours( of cause breaks in between) today. The blisters are all healed up( mostly for cane fighting exercise, a little from the second knuckles for circle punches). So I am back in business!!!

Guys, I do NOT punch the pole that hard. Like I said, I don't punch to do showing off, it's really for bone strengthening and I feel it works. I feel I can punch harder and more solid mainly because the wrist is stronger and the bones can keep up. Nothing like the "magic" promised by the SCAM iron palm and delivers NOTHING. This actually improve hitting power.....be that a little bit, but at least some. I made a short video of my pole punching exercise I do ONE time a week, lasting only about a minute. You can see I do NOT punch very hard, it does not do any damage to my hands. I have been doing this for like 10 years already, no side effect. I am a guitarist, I still can play guitar. My trade was electrical engineer and I still do a lot of designs and building at home after I retired. I constantly working with micro components 1mm to 2mm in size, doing soldering and all. I have absolutely no issue doing all those. I can comfortably say my punching the pole does no damage to my hands. Here is the video:

You can see I first punch with the two big knuckles, than I go higher to punch with the last two knuckle like Wing Chun style to punch high. Notice when I hit with second knuckles in the last part, I have hit a lot lighter, you can hear from the sound. When you hit hard enough, the tone of the sound is lower and has an echo sound from the garage, the circle punch sounds like tick tick tick tick. Still going to take a while to build up.

Don't you guys try to strengthen the foot and shine for leg kicks? Leg kicks are proven to be one of the most effective attack for years in UFC and other almost real fight. You kick the knee or the lower legs of the opponent, there is a good chance you kick the big bone of the opponent!!! If you don't strengthen your foot and shine, it might be more painful and disabling for you than your opponent you kick. I cannot see you try leg kicks without really train you foot and shine. Here is a video:

if you want to do low kicks, you better strengthen your own foot and shine. Talk is cheap, this is where rubber hits the road. Believe me, my 100lbs leather bag is very hard at the bottom. Even after all the pole kicking, sometimes when I kick the lower part of that bag, it hurts. This is only a heavy bag, not a big bone. Don't tell me about aiming and kicking accurately and it will be ok. This is REAL fight, your opponent is NOT going to stand there and let you aim. These fighters in UFC must be expert in MMA, if they break the bone like this, don't tell me you can do better. Sorry.

Like I was told that if you aim right and get the right distance, you won't break the skin punching a canvas bag. This is theoretical talk, Like I said, if you have not punch bare knuckle for a few months even though you practice punching heavy bag. Do it bare knuckles and do it like the Choy Li Fug guy in the video in this thread with multiple punches over and over and let the bag swing. See how many minutes your skin can last before you break the skin. Make sure you check your knuckles as you might not feel it in the mist of punching. Try not to break your skin, or else it will be painful later. Try it and come back and tell me.

I am going to post a video of my circle punches when I get a little better. Seriously, my main effort is on stick fight here, I really don't spend a lot of time in kick boxing. Been practice at home for over 30 years, I am no expert like you guys, but I am no beginner. I am not going to go much farther than where I am now.....if I can even keep it. My major thing is stick fight with a cane, that I feel I improve a lot the last few months because I am new at it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Guys, I am back.....from all the skill blisters, peelings and more major, my right knee. I saw the doctor yesterday, gone a magic shot(Cortisone) and it's magic. I hardly feel any pain after a full session of exercise lasting over 3 hours( of cause breaks in between) today. The blisters are all healed up( mostly for cane fighting exercise, a little from the second knuckles for circle punches). So I am back in business!!!

Guys, I do NOT punch the pole that hard. Like I said, I don't punch to do showing off, it's really for bone strengthening and I feel it works. I feel I can punch harder and more solid mainly because the wrist is stronger and the bones can keep up. Nothing like the "magic" promised by the SCAM iron palm and delivers NOTHING. This actually improve hitting power.....be that a little bit, but at least some. I made a short video of my pole punching exercise I do ONE time a week, lasting only about a minute. You can see I do NOT punch very hard, it does not do any damage to my hands. I have been doing this for like 10 years already, no side effect. I am a guitarist, I still can play guitar. My trade was electrical engineer and I still do a lot of designs and building at home after I retired. I constantly working with micro components 1mm to 2mm in size, doing soldering and all. I have absolutely no issue doing all those. I can comfortably say my punching the pole does no damage to my hands. Here is the video:

You can see I first punch with the two big knuckles, than I go higher to punch with the last two knuckle like Wing Chun style to punch high. Notice when I hit with second knuckles in the last part, I have hit a lot lighter, you can hear from the sound. When you hit hard enough, the tone of the sound is lower and has an echo sound from the garage, the circle punch sounds like tick tick tick tick. Still going to take a while to build up.

Don't you guys try to strengthen the foot and shine for leg kicks? You kick the kneed or the lower legs, there is a good chance you kick the big bone of the opponent!!! If you don't strengthen your foot and shine, it might be more painful and disabling for you than your opponent you kick. I cannot see you try leg kicks without really train you foot and shine.

If you need a cortisone shot, then you need to stop what caused that immediately. Cortisone feels like a magic shot immediately afterwards, but then the pain will come back unless you make a change in the coming months. Then you get another shot and it's less effective, while at the same time the underlying damage (that the shot isn't really fixing) continues to build. The cycle can very quickly increase and cause major issues with your hands.

And just because you were doing it for 10 years already, doesn't mean it will stay without any effects. The effects for things like that normally start under the surface, so once you do start having them, they continue from there, much quicker than you'd expect.

Note: I am not a doctor. I've just trained with people who have done similar things as you are doing now, and watched what happened.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you need a cortisone shot, then you need to stop what caused that immediately. Cortisone feels like a magic shot immediately afterwards, but then the pain will come back unless you make a change in the coming months. Then you get another shot and it's less effective, while at the same time the underlying damage (that the shot isn't really fixing) continues to build.

I was thinking the same thing. I have parents that get similar shots for back issues. It helps address the pain but it doesn't fix the problem. Pain lets us know that something is broken and it forces us to ease up or stop what we are doing. When you don't feel the pain then it's impossible to know if the damage is getting worse or not. At that point the person hasn't be aware of what they are doing more than ever. Even if they don't feel the pain they have to have an idea of what the limits are even if there isn't pain.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am going to post a video of my circle punches when I get a little better. Seriously, my main effort is on stick fight here, I really don't spend a lot of time in kick boxing. Been practice at home for over 30 years, I am no expert like you guys, but I am no beginner.

None of us are experts. We probably did something incorrectly or have seen people do things incorrectly and we learn from that. I may talk like I know everything but I don't. I just have a lot of experience of doing things and seeing things done incorrectly.

I now understand why the skin peels off the the second row of knuckles. You pull down like a cat scratching a pole. Strikes go straight in and are pulled straight out. Since you want to strike the wooden board, I'll show you a better way to condition those knuckles than using the wooden board. I'll see if I can make the video this week.

It will help you accomplish the same goal but with less damage to your fingers and joints. I still think that canvas bag would be a better conditioning tool so long as you aren't sliding your knuckles across it.

 

[Martial D]

This is where you'll need to learn some actual techniques. The techniques greatly reduce the chances of that happening. Hitting the skull isn't even an issue if you are fighting someone much taller.

But over all the striking techniques make a difference. The video of the guy with his students shows him throwing 2 punches and not 1 punch. There are also body motions and footwork techniques. There's more to the punch than just swinging the arms. All of it together greatly reduces the risk of hitting the skull.

Realistically you can bust your hand with a jab. That's why it's important to be able to target and time punches and movement. That way you hit what you are targeting. If you just swing wildly then expect lots of hand injuries.

I take it you've never boxed with someone that knows how to box.

If the other guy has his chin tucked and his hands up, you'll be looking at a whole lot of forehead. Unless you are orders of magnitude faster than him(taller or not) that head can dip faster than your hand will travel to his head.

This obviously doesn't mean you'll never connect on chin or nose, but to say there is no risk of punching the skull is ... misleading to say the least.

 

[Alan0354]

If you need a cortisone shot, then you need to stop what caused that immediately. Cortisone feels like a magic shot immediately afterwards, but then the pain will come back unless you make a change in the coming months. Then you get another shot and it's less effective, while at the same time the underlying damage (that the shot isn't really fixing) continues to build. The cycle can very quickly increase and cause major issues with your hands.

And just because you were doing it for 10 years already, doesn't mean it will stay without any effects. The effects for things like that normally start under the surface, so once you do start having them, they continue from there, much quicker than you'd expect.

Note: I am not a doctor. I've just trained with people who have done similar things as you are doing now, and watched what happened.

I got x-ray, everything is normal. It is strange, one day I finish exercise, nothing hurts, took a shower and walked down the stairs and the pain came on. I tried to work it out and kept experimenting with different exercises, nothing helped. I first thought it was the front kick, but it's not. Finally I kind of suspect when I knee the heavy bag, it hit the very spot that hurts. I stop kneeing the bag since last week and the knee got better. Also I started icing the knee and that really helps. When I went to the doctor, I was better already. The doctor even gave me a choice whether to take the injection, but I have very good result on the injection on my left knee 3 years ago, it holds up really well.

Hopefully it's the kneeing of the heavy bag that caused it, I am not kneeing the bag with my right knee anymore.

 

[Alan0354]

None of us are experts. We probably did something incorrectly or have seen people do things incorrectly and we learn from that. I may talk like I know everything but I don't. I just have a lot of experience of doing things and seeing things done incorrectly.

I now understand why the skin peels off the the second row of knuckles. You pull down like a cat scratching a pole. Strikes go straight in and are pulled straight out. Since you want to strike the wooden board, I'll show you a better way to condition those knuckles than using the wooden board. I'll see if I can make the video this week.

It will help you accomplish the same goal but with less damage to your fingers and joints. I still think that canvas bag would be a better conditioning tool so long as you aren't sliding your knuckles across it.

Thanks

I don't scratch the pole doing circle punch, it might look that way, but I lift it off the surface.

 

[Koryuhoka]

What exactly is circle punch. I went on youtube to look and this is the only one I found and I was told this is not right:

Can anyone show me how to do a circle punch, I never heard of this in my days. I only know hook punch.

Thanks

This technique exists in Goju Ryu, in the kata called Sepai, and it is known as the whipping fist. Here is the thing - No one on a forum such as this can, or should even be attempting to teach this, or any technique. There are certain dynamics involved in the proper execution of this, or any other technique. I would only teach the deeper understandings of my art to a good student, and only within the context of the kata. Martial arts theory is for those who are committed. They get the full transmission.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I take it you've never boxed with someone that knows how to box.

My Jow Instructor was an amateur boxer before he did Jow Ga Kung fu. I also had a co worker in the past who was also an amateur boxer as well. Both had really nice and crisp jabs that I had the hardest time to read. That experience helped me to realize that I read elbow movement to read jabs, which becomes useless when fighting someone wearing boxing gloves. The boxing gloves are big enough to hid the elbow movement that I read. So it was like the jabs were just teleporting in.

If the other guy has his chin tucked and his hands up, you'll be looking at a whole lot of forehead. Unless you are orders of magnitude faster than him(taller or not) that head can dip faster than your hand will travel to his head.

Because circular punches take a longer path, people usually react too soon which gives me enough time to see the dip and to change the direction of in pack. It is easier to turn a horizontal circular punch into a punch that moves into a more vertical strike. I have a video of this both against the amateur boxer who was my instructor and a Sanda Student.

Circular movement changing direction horizontal and vertical directions. His movement never returns to chamber like a jab.

This is the best way I can explain the circular movement, without posting a video of me doing it. Maybe this picture would help.
This punch started out as a horizontal punch. She correctly ducks it with the expectation that it would fly over her head. But it doesn't take munch energy to change the direction of this punch because it travels a much longer path than a jab. This type of circular punch never returns to chamber like a jab.

From horizontal to vertical.

j

 

[JowGaWolf]

Swing blindly like this and you'll probably break your hand on the skull. You can clearly see in this video there is no setup of techniques which is why it looks like wild swinging.

 

[Martial D]

My Jow Instructor was an amateur boxer before he did Jow Ga Kung fu. I also had a co worker in the past who was also an amateur boxer as well. Both had really nice and crisp jabs that I had the hardest time to read. That experience helped me to realize that I read elbow movement to read jabs, which becomes useless when fighting someone wearing boxing gloves. The boxing gloves are big enough to hid the elbow movement that I read. So it was like the jabs were just teleporting in.


Because circular punches take a longer path, people usually react too soon which gives me enough time to see the dip and to change the direction of in pack. It is easier to turn a horizontal circular punch into a punch that moves into a more vertical strike. I have a video of this both against the amateur boxer who was my instructor and a Sanda Student.

Circular movement changing direction horizontal and vertical directions. His movement never returns to chamber like a jab.

This is the best way I can explain the circular movement, without posting a video of me doing it. Maybe this picture would help.
This punch started out as a horizontal punch. She correctly ducks it with the expectation that it would fly over her head. But it doesn't take munch energy to change the direction of this punch because it travels a much longer path than a jab. This type of circular punch never returns to chamber like a jab.
View attachment 27130

From horizontal to vertical.
View attachment 27131j

Ok. But you didn't even address what I wrote, which was a response to your claim that punching the skull isn't even an issue(if the opponent is taller).

Even the best professional boxers hit skull. I don't care what your jow gar system teaches, what you said is patently false and seems to betray a lack of real experience.

Do you realize that gloves are hand protection?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ok. But you didn't even address what I wrote, which was a response to your claim that punching the skull isn't even an issue(if the opponent is taller).

A smaller person's strikes naturally land on the lower parts of the skull because of the angle that they are hitting at.

In terms of fighting 2 or 3 inches taller than me = same height. The reason I say this because stance level changes are typically in that range. If a person is significantly taller then their advantage is not to put their head within their punching range.

When a taller person points their fore head down then attack the sides of the head. If your opponent is significantly taller than you then don't attack the head as it will be too far. Attack the lower parts of his body until the head comes into range.

If you do not use techniques that allow you to strike the side of the head or that allow you to attack the harder parts of the head, then these aren't options for you. I can literally strike your forehead with my fist and never damage my knuckles.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Even the best professional boxers hit skull.

My personal opinion about professional boxers that wear gloves, is that they often hit the skull, simply because the boxing gloves allow them to do so. In short, gloves allow you to get away with stuff that you can't do when fighting without gloves.

One only needs to compare bare knuckle boxing to see how the approach to striking is different. Just like boxers with gloves can really put all into their punch when hitting the heavy bag. Bare knuckle fighters have to be more mindful about how they punch the heavy bag.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you realize that gloves are hand protection?

I hit the heavy bag without gloves and I do accuracy striking drills to help develop the hand and eye coordination that I use. I may spar with MMA gloves but I don't train to fight in them. Boxers are the opposite. They train to fight in gloves.

Many TMA systems are like this.

The biggest challenges for me and wearing boxing gloves is the difficulty of me actively maintaining my Jow Ga fist structure and the extra weight.

 

[Flying Crane]

My personal opinion about professional boxers that wear gloves, is that they often hit the skull, simply because the boxing gloves allow them to do so. In short, gloves allow you to get away with stuff that you can't do when fighting without gloves.

One only needs to compare bare knuckle boxing to see how the approach to striking is different. Just like boxers with gloves can really put all into their punch when hitting the heavy bag. Bare knuckle fighters have to be more mindful about how they punch the heavy bag.

It isn’t only the gloves, but also the wraps that support and protect the wrists and knuckles. That lets you slam away as hard as you can, without injury. But the wrists and hands then do not develop the strength to withstand landing those punches without that support, and leaves the door open to injury. If one wants to be able to defend themselves outside of a competition ring, then time on the heavy bag without wraps and gloves is important. Develop that ability to strike effectively without injury, without the support and protection.