5 years ago, I still wrestled with young wrestlers in the park. I don't think I will do that today.
What is circle punch?
- Thread starter Alan0354
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I was told the same thing and and teachers probably tell and teach students that same nonsense. I personally have never found the way to so such a thing and my stance will never be stable enough to land a downward strike like that. I've never had anyone who had a flat back that I could strike when they tackled me. Maybe there was once a time where that did happen but it doesn't happen anymore. With sports like American Football, Australian Football, and Rugby almost every boy who has played those in the park or in their yard has some kind of experience with taking someone down.
I was fortunate enough to do a lot of wrestling and playing around with friends. I played a lot of neighborhood football and did a lot of rough play as a kid, but I know not everyone has that type of experience.
Not always, that's why you see a lot BJJ guys just willingly go to the ground. They don't try to defend against the take down they just go to the ground anyway.
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ha ha ha. you can still wrestle. You just might not like how you feel in later on at night or in the morning lol. It may be a long time before I wrestle someone all thanks to Covid. I have my shots, but even with the vaccination I still act as if I don't have it.
BJJ is a funny sport.
If you
- take yourself down, nobody can take you down.
- kill yourself, nobody can kill you.
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ha ha ha.. yep. That's about the reality of it.
- Thread Starter
- #86
Thanks, I gave it a lot of thoughts, I am getting to the point my body is screaming at me because I added the stick fight using a cane. It is very hard to add MMA training to what I am doing at this point. For my age where it looks normal to carry a cane when I go out, a cane is definitely a much better option than any MMA I can learn. For me, it's all about survival and keep safe, nothing about passion and interest anymore. As is, I have to scale down from 7 hours a week already, I don't think I can handle another new and more demanding routine. I have to give the cane higher priority.
Thanks
- Thread Starter
- #87
If there is a way to increase the power of the downward strike, at least there is a chance. The most maddening thing is 3 years, 4 days/wk, ruining both carpal tunnel, I don't think I hit harder than from day one. Imagine if I spent the time doing something useful, I'd be much better off. I even periodically went back to the instructor to demo what I practice and was told I was doing good!!!( Iron palm is a repetitive striking, I don't need to constantly taking lesson, just horse stand and strike to ball bearing bag. I just made appointment with the instructor every few months to check).
For anyone that interested in Iron palm........DON'T!!! If anyone insists in practicing this, hit with closed fist as hammer fist. You hit harder, don't need very much toughening the fist as hammer fist is pretty safe even hitting hard surface. You don't need to constantly practice and get better result( hit harder).
treatise
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I'm a 3rd degree black belt in Hoi Jeon Moo Sool and we use circle punches all the time. There's even a You Tube video of the circle punch used by an older dude who was laughed at in a match. The old guy knocked out the younger guy. Start with a horizontal hammer strike (that's 1) follow in with an immediate horizontal hook (that's 2). Your opposite hand should reach for the sky while you pirouette in the same rotation, then bring the original hand down and across in another hammer strike (that's 3). If done correctly, with enough rotational power, you deliver three powerful strikes to exactly the same area on your opponent. It can be devastating.
Most people add a kick at the end of the 2nd punch and before the 3rd punch.
I like circle punch because I can easily use it to grab and pull my opponent's blocking arm.
drop bear
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You can break your hand really easily on an elbow. Throwing punches to that soft body is fraught with danger.
- Thread Starter
- #91
After taking a week off, this week I am back in action. I have been practicing relax as GowGaWolf suggested, it helps, I did it before long time ago, apparently, I need to periodically renew the practice. When I went slow concentrating on smoothness, I was stumbling!!! Took me a few rounds to get back to in!!
I practice circle punch as in post #3, sadly, the skin pealed after two rounds. My bones are fine, I get used to punching the pole already, it's the new skin that I never used that gave. Now, I have to stop and let it heal. It's frustrating. Takes a while to build up the thick skin like the big knuckles to take the beating of the heavy bags particular the canvas one, it's very abrasive on the skin. Wearing gloves is cheating!!!
I practice circle punch as in post #3, sadly, the skin pealed after two rounds. My bones are fine, I get used to punching the pole already, it's the new skin that I never used that gave. Now, I have to stop and let it heal. It's frustrating. Takes a while to build up the thick skin like the big knuckles to take the beating of the heavy bags particular the canvas one, it's very abrasive on the skin. Wearing gloves is cheating!!!
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
What are you striking to make the skin peel? If you hit through something then you create the abrasion. But if you hit into a bag and don’t scrape the surface, then No abrasion.
- Thread Starter
- #93
Heavy bags. Circle punch is a slapping type punch. When the bag moves while you follow through, it scrape a little. Repeat enough times, it will burn.
Same as normal punch, we all have to go through the stage of peeling the skin off on the big knuckles until the skin gets tougher. It just takes time.
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If your skin is peeling off then it is most likely that you are swiping your punch. This means your impact isn't going directly into and directly out of the punch. If your punch slide across the surface then it's like striking a match and your skin comes off. Everything must go into the bad and directly off it.
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Canvas heavy bag and no gloves is the only thing I know. It will let you know right away if your punching isn't efficient. If you do it correctly the skin should get tough but your knuckles won't look big or ugly. In my 20's I punched a canvas bad (the cloth kind) the cloth kind, for 6 days a week for 2 years and my knuckles never got big and ugly. The knuckles got big think but you couldn't tell if I punched the bag or not.
Lower the power of the punches until you are able to punch the bag without sliding your fist across the bag. This will help build up your knuckles without taking the skin off. By the time you get the hang of it, you should feel the difference in your knuckles. You won't be able to see it, but you will be able to feel that the skin is growing ticker.
I have some purchases coming up soon, I'll try to remember to make a video of how I punch a heavy bag. It's been a while since I hit one so most of my knuckle conditioning is gone with the exception of knuckle push ups which is more conditioning of bone and not the skin.
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Most people punch with gloves on so they never know that they are striking that bag like a match head. This should be the universal logo for punching a bag without gloves, because it will let you know of those little things that matter a lot like punching across a target or sliding the fist back after making an impact. lol
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
No, you don’t need to do that. I use this strike on the heavy bag a lot. I never scrape the knuckles. Perhaps there is a learning curve In the beginning, but you should not perpetually scrape the knuckles, nor be relying on a callous or something.
May I ask
- Who taught you the iron palm training?
- Did you use the iron palm medicine when you train?
- Thread Starter
- #99
I am referring to just normal jab and reverse punch here. I know about going directly in and out, aiming a few inches into the heavy bag and focus the force to that point and get maximum penetration. I have been practicing this for years. That a good punch produce max penetration with very little movement of the bag going backward. This is basic stuffs.
BUT, you don't punch a single punch and stop the bag from moving before the second punch. I practice 4 or 5 punches in a sequence like jab, reverse punch to the face, then 3rd and 4th to the stomach and the 5th to the face. The bag is going to move particular when punching the stomach, one punch to the left side and one to the right. The bag is going to swing.
When the bag starts swinging some, you NEVER get 100% in and out, so you get the sliding surface even if you hit a perfect straight punch. If the skin on the knuckle is not trained, you are going to break the skin sooner or later. This not only happen on the first time punching, If you stop punching with bare hand for a month or two, you WILL break your skin if you do it hard for a few rounds on heavy bags. This is just the nature of the game. Just look at this video you linked. Look at how much the bag moves if you punch multiple punches:
If you don't want to break your skin, maybe putting a small bag on the wall and punch one punch at a time. That won't move and you are in control how straight in and out of your punch. But what is the use? The important thing is to punch a series of punches in the attack and you can focus to punch on the spot even if the bag move some.
Lastly and more importantly, I am 5'5", I have to learn to punch up. My punch is never perfectly true to the surface to the bag. I have to prepare to fight someone that is 6' or taller!!! So, by default, it's going to be more abrasive to the skin. In this note, I don't understand people punching the bag at the neck level. It's so so much easier to punch a good looking straight punch to the neck level. Look at the video, a lot of his punches are to the neck, not to the face level even for his height. But still, when the bag moves, it's going to burn the skin. For me, I have to punch up. Believe me, it's a lot harder to punch up.
Back to the circle punch, when you hit the bag that is moving ( like in the video), the bag is going to rub the skin even if you circle punch perfectly.
You taller people take for granted and might not know how hard to punch up. Try it and you'll see. For shorter people like me, If I punch to my neck level, that's punching the upper chest of a tall guy!!! For what?
- Thread Starter
- #100
It's a school in my area, he had a video also. Iron palm is easy to train, it's only a repetitive hitting downward on the bag. I know all about using the chi from the abdominal to the shoulder and the hand is like a whip. These are basic stuffs. It's just a slap down with palm down, slap down with palm up, then chop and then 5 finger poke. There's no secret in this training.
No, I don't use the liniment that often, I do rub my hands afterwards. BUT, that's NOT the point. You can say that's the reason I got my carpal tunnel, BUT this is not what I complain about. My main complain is 3 years of training, I do NOT hit any harder than before. I tried on my kicking bag, I know enough what is a hard hit and what is NOT. AND IT IS NOT hard hitting. If I can hit harder, it would still be worth it to get the carpal tunnel.
I can hit harder with a closed fist like hammer fist in the same motion as iron palm without going through 3 years of practice. IT IS A SCAM. I do practice hammer fist.
I went back to the school to have the master check and they even said I did good. They even commented I can easily breaking two boards with it. And by breaking boards, I mean boards that ARE STACKED WITH NO GAPS IN BETWEEN. Another big scam is people put separators between boards so there's a space in the middle between boards. You break one, the momentum will carry your hand to break the second and the third boards for show. When I saw people doing demonstrations, I started laughing.
I am sure I can break at least 2 boards with no gap between. But I can break at least 3 boards(no gap) with a punch!!! ALL the slapping of the bag is just to numb the palm so it's not that painful when slapping the surface, nothing more. You don't get stronger.
You get stronger by knowing how to strike, how to use the body to generate the force and use the hand like a whip. You don't need to destroy your hand to do that.
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