What is a "Martial Artist"

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JesterXY

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You can search for blends of two words in a dictionary?

Search Martial.

Yes Cyriacus, you can search for blends of two words in a dictionary. Maybe you should try it.

Oxford Dictionaries

martial arts
plural noun
• various sports or skills, mainly of Japanese origin, that originated as forms of self-defense or attack, such as judo, karate, and kendo.

(Again not a definition I would particularly agree with, but what can you do)

And again, no mention of the army, the military, or military life.
 

Cyriacus

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Yes Cyriacus, you can search for blends of two words in a dictionary. Maybe you should try it.

Oxford Dictionaries

martial arts
plural noun
• various sports or skills, mainly of Japanese origin, that originated as forms of self-defense or attack, such as judo, karate, and kendo.

(Again not a definition I would particularly agree with, but what can you do)

And again, no mention of the army, the military, or military life.
Huh. It aint in any of the Dictionaries on My Bookshelf.
 

Cyriacus

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Who needs a hardcopy dictionary, you've heard of Google, the Internet? A whole universe of information at your fingertips.
Ive spent many hours every day on the internet for pretty much all my life, Good Sir.

Shock/Horror, I own a hard-copy dictionary.
Dear me, what is the world coming to.
If it isnt on the internet, it must be a lie.
 

rickster

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Context, rickster, context.

I was speaking in the context of Martial Arts and training.

"Attitude:" Treating that guy you really don't like much with respect because he is your fellow student and trains just as hard as you do. Bowing to your sparring partner who just humiliated you in front of everyone, because he taught you several very valuable things.

"Perseverance:" Going to class and training just as hard even though you're still sore from the time before, Going to class and training even though you've had a crappy day and all you really want to do is park your rear in front of the TV and drink a beer.

"Making the effort:" Trying again and again and again to pull off that "impossible technique." Because dammit it is possible and you will do it

And yes, anyone with sufficient desire and drive can become a "Martial Artist".

Nice post;


This should include beginners
 

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This is a continuation of a discussion me and some of my fellow students were having while unwinding after class.

At what point can one legitimately consider themselves (or be considered) a Martial Artist?
The obvious answer Black Belt was quickly brought up. However one of the Black Belts suggested that sticking it out long enough to make the first advancement in rank was sufficient. Some one else suggested a natural aptitude as a criteria.

My feeling is that whether or not one is a Martial Artist has nothing to do with rank or advancement, or aptitude or even how long one has studied. What makes a Martial Artist are things like attitude and perseverance and making the effort.


What are your opinions?

Like Steve said....anyone that trains. IMO, rank and time in, really don't play a part in determining whether or not someone is/isn't a martial artist.
 

rickster

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Yes Cyriacus, you can search for blends of two words in a dictionary. Maybe you should try it.

Oxford Dictionaries

martial arts
plural noun
• various sports or skills, mainly of Japanese origin, that originated as forms of self-defense or attack, such as judo, karate, and kendo.

(Again not a definition I would particularly agree with, but what can you do)

And again, no mention of the army, the military, or military life.

[h=2]martial arts[/h] 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/martial+art?s=t
noun
any of the traditional forms of Oriental self-defense or combat that utilize physical skill and coordination without weapons, as karate, aikido, judo, or kung fu, often practiced as sport.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial%20art
noun

: any of several arts of combat and self defense (as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/martial-art?q=martial+art
noun
a sport that is a traditional Japanese or Chinese form of fighting or defending yourself
Kung fu and karate are martial arts.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/martial-art
noun
a sport that is a traditional Asian form of fighting such as Karate Judo, or Kung Fu.


Looks like those who define these in any dictionary, seems like they are not accurate nor martial artists.

The word sport and Asian references seem to always included in the definition

Yet, if you define each word; martial and art, the definition can become something different
 
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JesterXY

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Ive spent many hours every day on the internet for pretty much all my life, Good Sir.

Shock/Horror, I own a hard-copy dictionary.
Dear me, what is the world coming to.
If it isnt on the internet, it must be a lie.

No need to get defensive.
 
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JesterXY

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I should have been complacent, instead of pointing out how long Ive used Computers and the Internet for? :)

Feeling confrontational are we?
I frankly could care less about your vast experience with the internet.
How about we get back on subject now?

Nobody I know thinks of the army, the military, or military life when the subject is "Martial Arts", I don't care if you isolate the individual elements, the definition of the term "Martial Arts" is only peripherally connected to the individual words. The simple truth is that the popular definition of a term is what ultimately determines the official definition.

A "Martial Art" is any one of a number of fighting or self-defence disciplines that can be found through out the world.
Kung fu and karate are two examples of asian martial arts.
 

The Last Legionary

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Feeling confrontational are we?
I frankly could care less about your vast experience with the internet.
How about we get back on subject now?

Nobody I know thinks of the army, the military, or military life when the subject is "Martial Arts", I don't care if you isolate the individual elements, the definition of the term "Martial Arts" is only peripherally connected to the individual words. The simple truth is that the popular definition of a term is what ultimately determines the official definition.

A "Martial Art" is any one of a number of fighting or self-defence disciplines that can be found through out the world.
Kung fu and karate are two examples of asian martial arts.

Hello Jester, I'm Legion.
Martial Arts are the art of warfare.
Any other definition is wrong.
The simple truth is, you are wrong.
Have a nice day.
 
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JesterXY

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Hello Jester, I'm Legion.
Martial Arts are the art of warfare.
Any other definition is wrong.
The simple truth is, you are wrong.
Have a nice day.

Nice passive/agressive thing you got going there Legion.
And quite frankly it bores the crap out of me.

The simple truth is just because it is your opinion does not make it TRUE.
Have a nice day (See I can do it to)
 

The Last Legionary

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Nice passive/agressive thing you got going there Legion.
And quite frankly it bores the crap out of me.

The simple truth is just because it is your opinion does not make it TRUE.
Have a nice day (See I can do it to)

I could care less if you're bored. You're on a Martial Arts forum. Not in a McDojo. You have had at least 2 people here correct your misunderstanding. I'm sure more will as well. You're right, my opinion doesn't make it true. But understanding the roots of the arts does. Martial Arts are combat arts. Well, the good ones are. Most of what's taught under that heading is as effective as dance class. So, if that's what you're learning, karate-ballet, then I guess it's not a war art. Froo Froo Dancing maybe?

I train swords. Swords are weapons. Weapons of war. Not toys. Of course, my arts are European, so maybe because rice and soy sauce isn't involved you won't consider it a martial art. That's ok. We can discuss how many points you score for disembowelment vs decapitation in a different thread on sports maybe.

Martial Arts, are the arts of combat. Combat is a part of warfare. War art. Art of War.
Kung Fu, Karate, Kempo, even Tai Chi came from the techniques used by soldiers in combat. Some evolved into sports such as Judo or Kendo or modern Fencing. Some retain their ancient violence. Except Froo Froo dancing. There you don't get a black belt, you get a pair of black knotted panties. Always riding up, making you irritable. Froo Froo is ********.

Of course, you could always switch to Ameri-do-te, but that may be too much for someone who lacks understanding.

I had a nice day btw. It involved an ear of corn, a training partner, and one wickedly evil technique called Farmers Outhouse Evacuation. I'd get into the details but then we'd have to kill the squirrel running the server. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture. No sir. Bad as broccoli.

Of course, the guys in the military don't think of kung fu, karate or whatnot as combat arts. More like dancing in pajamas. Froo Froo.

:wavey:
 

Cyriacus

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Feeling confrontational are we?
I frankly could care less about your vast experience with the internet.
How about we get back on subject now?

Nobody I know thinks of the army, the military, or military life when the subject is "Martial Arts", I don't care if you isolate the individual elements, the definition of the term "Martial Arts" is only peripherally connected to the individual words. The simple truth is that the popular definition of a term is what ultimately determines the official definition.

A "Martial Art" is any one of a number of fighting or self-defence disciplines that can be found through out the world.
Kung fu and karate are two examples of asian martial arts.
I am not being confrontational.
And I couldnt care less about Your opinion on the subject - Only Your passive-aggressive remark. Which I responded to with no "Defensiveness" or "Confrontational" intent whatsoever. If You couldnt care less about My experience with the Internet, dont bring up *My experience with the Internet*.
Or did You forget?
Who needs a hardcopy dictionary, you've heard of Google, the Internet? A whole universe of information at your fingertips.

I know three people who think of it militaristically because They started training in the Military.
I am not learning Martial Arts for Fitness, Exercise, or Spiritualism, I am learning it for Self Defense. And dont take that as a way of implying that many others dont do it for other reasons. And I happen to be getting Fitness and Exercise out of it. Im not a fan of Spiritualism in the slightest.

You are finding definition as You seek it. Do You call College Football a different Sport to University Football? No, because its Football. The first part is just where its being played.
Martial Arts are the same. Martial. Art. Two words, not one. When Karate was created, it was not so that Japanese Kids had a fun sport to do after school.
Since We're using the Internet, and Youve started a discussion;

"Martial arts are extensive systems of codified practices and traditions of combat that are practiced for a variety of reasons, including self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, as well as mental, physical and spiritual development. The term martial art has become heavily associated with the fighting arts of eastern Asia, but was originally used in regard to the combat systems of Europe as early as the 1550s. An English fencing manual of 1639 used the term in reference specifically to the "Science and Art" of swordplay. The term is ultimately derived from Latin, martial arts being the "Arts of Mars," the Roman god of war.[SUP][1][/SUP] Some martial arts are considered 'traditional' and tied to an ethnic, cultural or religious background, while others are modern systems developed either by a founder or an association."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts

Followed by;
http://www.meibukanmagazine.org/Downloads/MMSpecialEdition1.pdf

And if the Popular Definition equates to the Official Definition, then all Martial Arts are Asian Sports.
Maybe thats why You train - It isnt why everyone trains. And it certainly doesnt define Martial Arts as a whole.

"A "Martial Art" is any one of a number of fighting or self-defence disciplines that can be found through out the world."
And why would You be learning how to Fight?
Define Fighting. Why would You be Fighting? You can define that as Fighting in a Publican, or Fighting for Your Country. Martial Arts are a Pallet, and Their users decide how They use Them.

And incidentally, I for one have not tried to impose one definition of Martial Arts.
" ...codified practices and traditions of combat that are practiced for a variety of reasons"

And now to discredit using online dictionaries:
http://www.reference.com/browse/martial+arts
"
The traditional Asian martial arts emphasize allowing ki (cosmic energy; also known as chi) to flow through one's body."
So, Muay Thai is all about allowing Ki to flow through ones body?

In closing, I did not start this discussion. I just informed You that I prefer using actual Dictionaries to ones on the Internet which can provide unusual information. You can define Martial Arts however You want - Just read This entire Thread. You dont have to like its Definition - But that doesnt mean You have to change it.

Also, You bore the crap out of Me :)
*Puts You on Ignore*
 

Carol

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What someone learns and does upon joining a MA school in the U.S. is very different than what learns and does upon joining the military in the U.S.

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Bob Hubbard

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What someone learns and does upon joining a MA school in the U.S. is very different than what learns and does upon joining the military in the U.S.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Well, yeah. In the army there's a lot more mud, barbed wire and screaming, and less writing checks so someone can put colored electrical tape on your belt. ;)
 

chrispillertkd

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Then this would not just apply to a martial artist

If there are other types of art that have underlying philosophies that are meant to be appropriated and applied to daily living then people doing that would be "whatever type of artists." Since I was specifically referring to people who practice martial arts then when those people begin applying their art in daily life then they are martial artists.

Pax,

Chris
 

rickster

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If there are other types of art that have underlying philosophies that are meant to be appropriated and applied to daily living then people doing that would be "whatever type of artists." Since I was specifically referring to people who practice martial arts then when those people begin applying their art in daily life then they are martial artists.

Pax,

Chris

Agree.

But, I wanted to point out that non-martial artists can obtain the same.

The big difference is underlying fighting-defense disciplines
 

chrispillertkd

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Agree.

But, I wanted to point out that non-martial artists can obtain the same.

Yes they could if whatever art they practice or study has underlying philosophical principles that are meant to be - or simply are able to be - adopted to your daily living.

The big difference is underlying fighting-defense disciplines

Insofar as these are unique to martial arts, yes. It is possible that martial artists and other types of artists will have an overlap in the area of what philosophical concepts they adopt. But there will be areas that do not over lap, too.

Honestly, it seems some posters in this thread are being overly pedantic.

Pax,

Chris
 

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