Was Rush right on this one?

Tgace

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The Truth Is

Rush Limbaugh

I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the September 11th casualty and those who die serving the country in uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th. Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.

If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million. If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000, direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185, million up to $4.7 million, are complaining that it's not enough.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11th families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well. You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad.
 
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rmcrobertson

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In a way, yes.

However, this has relatively little to do with any, "entitlement politics." It has to do with the market: raising money for 9/11 folks was a lot more marketable, politically and economically, than raising money for mere soldiers.

Then too, the 9/11 victims proved to be ideologically useful, while our 1300 dead/5000 wounded troops have proven to be politically embarassing. If we were to have honestly explained the reasons for war, actually mustered the support to actually declare war, honestly told the country what we could expect in terms of dead and wounded sons and daughters/fathers and husbands, and then gone and done it...welllp. Might not get the votes.

But at bottom, the money thing happens for the same reason that pro athletes, actors, rock stars, idiot defeated politicians and the likes of Paris Hilton make a bundle while inner-city teachers and nurses have to get a second job.

It's capitalism, Jake. That's how capitalism works. Limbaugh only makes it a moral issue because he cannot face the fact that that's how capitalism works.
 
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Tgace

Tgace

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This does leave out the $250,000 average SGLI policy that servicemen have. But even then...

I see where Rush is going with this, however you dont enlist expecting to make a ton of $$ alive or dead. I guess the issue is when does somebody "deserve" individual $$ aid and how much?
 

Phoenix44

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I think some of what he says is right. Some of his rationale is wrong. I think it's a great thing when we Americans look after each other. (That's why Social Security is a great thing--but that's another issue) Especially after a tragedy. It's not an "entitlement mentality." It's taking care of your neighbors and yourself. It's "doing unto others." It's "American values."

On the other hand, I do remember reading in Newsday the statements of some of those who were disappointed at how "little" they were getting in 9/11 aid, because it wouldn't be enough to "raise their standard of living." When I contributed to the 9/11 relief effort, I was hoping to offer some comfort and to help get people back on their feet after the loss of the familiy's breadwinner. I seriously doubt many of us who contributed were intending to raise anyone's standard of living or to offer survivors an early retirement.

In fact, people die tragically every day. The other day a huge branch fell off a tree killing someone waiting underneath for a bus. His survivors were no less devastated than the 9/11 survivors...and nobody offered them a million dollars.

As for the soldiers and their families: they are absolutely getting a raw deal.
 
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Tgace

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What was the average income, insurance and benefit packages for employees in the towers? How much did the employers pay out? Not that Americans giving charity was wrong, its a great example of American spirit, but I would think that those poor souls were in a better fiscal situation than many. Its a tough topic to face because what happened to those poor people was so awful.
 
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Tgace

Tgace

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BTW...are the families of the fireman and police officers killed in the towers getting this too? Does anybody know?
 

7starmantis

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I know that my brother worked in one of the towers and just happened to be off work that day. He actually volunteered (he is also a licensed clergy) at ground zero for weeks, digging dead people out of rubble, digging body parts out. He also counseled the workers that were there, they had 24 hour counseling services available. He is pretty scarred from the event himself, and will not receive any kind of monetary thanks. If we want to say its fair, we must include those who gave up time and money to help save people and clean that area up. Those police, fireman, and more who gave their lives as well. I dont mind people receiving some money, but its just not been very well managed in my opinion. Also, are we setting up college funds for the kids when they reach 18 or just handing out 1.2 million dollar checks? Its just mismanaged, thats all.

Rush is right in the point of those who are complaining about not getting enough. Its an expectant mentality. In my opinion that is wrong and pretty much pisses me off. My brother doesn't expect anything, and really wouldn't want any money for it anyway, but those who expect it, or complain about not getting enough....thats just wrong. I mean, were do we stop? Should I expect some money for the pain and anguish I went through, thinking my brother was dead? We couldnt get through to him for a long time. See, the deserving thing starts into play. My family deserves money for the mental agony we went through!! What about all the time and emotional scarring my brother has now for helping? We deserve money!! Who is going to say we dont?

See, it can get out of hand quickly. For the record, I dont think I or anyone in my family deserves any money from 9/11, but there are plenty of people who do feel they are entitled some money.why?

7sm
 

shesulsa

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I remember an expose on this some time ago. I thought the people who were complaining that they weren't getting "enough" were the people who were promised X amount of dollars, but received a small fraction of that with no promise for more. There was also a large, relatively poor family with both parents breadwinning, but one parent gone leaving the family in great need of assistance but few promised funds as opposed to a married well-to-do couple who needed no financial assistance but expected to get in excess of $1 million, but were given a little less and sued to get the rest.

I think what we're really looking at here is a mismanagement or misappropriation of funds without regard to need, rather than lifestyle maintenance or (what I think is more appropriate) transitional assistance. It's nothing new, to be sure. Using the 9/11 attacks to further attack those in need is petty, IMHO.
 
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Erik

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The troops volunteered. They and their familiies knew what they were in for.

The New Yorkers and DCers did not.
 

Phoenix44

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Erik said:
The troops volunteered. They and their familiies knew what they were in for.

The New Yorkers and DCers did not.
This may be true, but...uh...don't you think their families deserve some health insurance?
 

Adept

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I have a fundamental problem with the awarding of money to people to compensate for mental agony or suffering.

Now, I think people should be compensated. If they lose income, that income should be reimbursed. If they lose potential income, that income should be estimated and paid out. Assets should be replaced.

But mental suffering can not be healed by money. If all the physical aspects of your life are compensated, and you are no worse off than before the incident, then how can MORE money make you feel better about your loss?
 

7starmantis

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Adept said:
Now, I think people should be compensated. If they lose income, that income should be reimbursed. If they lose potential income, that income should be estimated and paid out. Assets should be replaced.
Why?

Your using the word "should". Why "should" lost income be replaced? Do people not loose income everyday without replacement? If we start saying lost income should be replaced, we are opening up a huge, huge issue. I dont have a problem with it being replaced if possible, but there are people who are victims of crime, hate cromes, accidents, etc everyday that loose income, are we talking about all of them as well?

7sm
 

7starmantis

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Erik said:
The troops volunteered. They and their familiies knew what they were in for.

The New Yorkers and DCers did not.
Where did you hear that?

7sm
 
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Erik

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It's pretty clear.

Servicemen volunteer to go fight - they are not conscripted. I don't know what part of all the guns, bomb-laden jet fighters, submarines, ships packed with missiles, tanks, artillery, and the like, are not designed for war, plain and simple.

This was plain and clear to me when I joined the Army. There's no mistaking it. It's not a vacation at Disneyland.

The people and families of the people who were killed on 9/11 were going about their daily lives and did not expect to join a fight.

There's a big difference.

As for insurance, everyone needs it. The USA is the only industrialized country without universal health insurance.

My wife was a doctor in Algeria and fled the civil war there. The religious psychos were kidnapping doctors and carrying them out into the desert to work on their wounded fighters. Women doctors had even more problems.

Even in the middle of a war between a Mafia-like oil profiteering government and psycho religious fundamentalists much like Al Quaeda, they were able to offer universal health care.

I had to go to Germany to get my elbow repaired. I could barely use my right arm and was learning to write left-handed at the age of 28. Both my parents, two aunts and three uncles, my wife, her aunt and uncle, and my grandfather are all doctors. I could not get a simple surgery to remove some 10 year old bone fragments from an old injury because no insurance company would accept me once I was already injured. The state of health care in the USA is pathetic.

This is what our GIs and GI families are facing and is probably what that talking mule, Rush, is getting at.
 
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rmcrobertson

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What one has to love about this is Rush's blaming the politically-motivated decisions of three separate Republican adminisstrations (city, state, national) on them damn liberals yet again.

One also has to admire his utter refusal to consider for one second the possibility--hang on to your seats, kids, this'll shock ya--that the wealthy, the well-connected and the powerful grabbed a government handout with both of their grubby paws extended.

Equally hilarious is the refusal to even notice that hey--and again, a Big Shock coming--soldiers tend to get used and thrown away by the wealthy, the well-connected and the powerful. Hell, we jumped into an unnecessary and unjustified war with too-few troops that were not well-prepared and well-supported because of the military theories of Rumsfield et all, who ducked out on service themselves but damn sure imposed their fantasies of a, "lighter, more flexible force," on the Iraq mess.

Actually, Rush couldn't find his considerable *** with both hands, a hunting dog and a flashlight.

And oh, just incidentally--apparently he's getting the ACLU to help him with his drug prosecutions in Florida. How very odd--I'd thought the ACLU was the font of all evil, and one of the primary reasons for the culture of entitlement.
 

7starmantis

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Understanding the risk of danger and "knowing what your in for" are two different things in my book. I see your point, I just took what you said as something else.

Why is it someone elses responsibility (insurance company) to fix our elbows and sicknesses? And if your talking government run health insurance why would the government be responsible? Its too much of this mentality that makes people feel like everyone is expecting something. We rely way too much on the insurance companies and the government to "take care" of us, in my humble opinion.

7sm
 
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Erik

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7starmantis said:
We rely way too much on the insurance companies and the government to "take care" of us, in my humble opinion.
There's truth to that but I think that one of the things in society that does need to be communal (i.e. resources pooled) is health care.

When a 19 year old water polo playing athlete slips and falls (in church choir - no joke) and can barely use his arm 9 years later, the guy deserves some help so he can live his life and contribute to society.

I'm not talking about 300 lb. slobs who chain smoke and then complain that McDonalds is making them fat and want public funds for their self-inflicted diabetes and emphasyma.
 
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rmcrobertson

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Uh...will you be fixing your own elbow, in the unhappy event that you take a bad fall on the mat?

We live in an extraordinarily-complex society, in which we have to rely upon one another in all sorts of ways. Rush et al just can't stand that reality, and try to erase it at every turn.
 
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Erik

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rmcrobertson said:
Uh...will you be fixing your own elbow, in the unhappy event that you take a bad fall on the mat?

We live in an extraordinarily-complex society, in which we have to rely upon one another in all sorts of ways. Rush et al just can't stand that reality, and try to erase it at every turn.
It's fixed now (90%+) and I have a job with health insurance (thank God!)

I'm with you - we're all in this together. Our publicly pooled resources must be applied intelligently (with all the arguing that comes with that kind of discussion). This, as opposed to trying to do away with the idea.
 
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