Ill. students lose diplomas

[MA-Caver]

Ill. students lose diplomas over cheers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070602/ap_on_re_us/graduation_decorum
By JAN DENNIS, Associated Press Writer Fri Jun 1, 10:31 PM ET

GALESBURG, Ill. - Caisha Gayles graduated with honors last month, but she is still waiting for her diploma. The reason: the whoops of joy from the audience as she crossed the stage.
Gayles was one of five students denied diplomas from the lone public high school in Galesburg after enthusiastic friends or family members cheered for them during commencement.
About a month before the May 27 ceremony, Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way. Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-graduation party.
Many schools across the country ask spectators to hold applause and cheers until the end of graduation. But few of them enforce the policy with what some in Galesburg say are strong-arm tactics.
"It was like one of the worst days of my life," said Gayles, who had a 3.4 grade-point average and officially graduated, but does not have the keepsake diploma to hang on her wall. "You walk across the stage and then you can't get your diploma because of other people cheering for you. It was devastating, actually."
School officials in Galesburg, a working-class town of 34,000 that is still reeling from the 2004 shutdown of a 1,600-employee refrigerator factory, said the get-tough policy followed a 2005 commencement where hoots, hollers and even air horns drowned out much of the ceremony and nearly touched off fights in the audience when the unruly were asked to quiet down.
"Lots of parents complained that they could not hear their own child's name called," said Joel Estes, Galesburg's assistant superintendent. "And I think that led us to saying we have to do something about this to restore some dignity and honor to the ceremony so that everyone can appreciate it and enjoy it."
In Indianapolis, public school officials this year started kicking out parents and relatives who cheer. At one school, the superintendent interrupted last month's graduation to order police to remove a woman from the gymnasium.

They're kidding me right? A child graduating from high school is a very proud moment for any parent (ok, any CARING parent). All that hard work and money spent to get class projects done, studying, exams and all of that on top of day to day life in/out of school for a growing teenager and they don't get their diplomas because Mom and Dad are so happy for their child (especially with a high GPA) that they can't contain themselves when their child's name is called.
I'm having a real problem with trying to see the school's side of it all. Ok, yeah they want to impress upon how serious obtaining a high school diploma is... but you think they've been doing that all throughout their school careers. Now comes celebration of the end of all that work and the reward.
Denying the diploma to me is akin to denying someone the title to their car after making the final payment just because they blew their horn in a celebratory manner.
Also denied participation in the after-graduation party as well. Oh afraid they'll whoop it all up and get rowdy?
This really doesn't make any sense at all to me. Does it to anyone else?

 

[exile]

Class action lawsuit time against the school board, IMO. The fact is, the kids were punished for someone else's behavior. This cannot be legal, contract or no contract.

 

[MA-Caver]

Class action lawsuit time against the school board, IMO. The fact is, the kids were punished for someone else's behavior. This cannot be legal, contract or no contract.

Thank you for that... that what was bugging me; these kids worked hard to get their diplomas and if the school board don't want a disruptive ceremony then they should do it in private then hold a public one. Oh but that'll probably cost too much money wouldn't it? Sigh.

 

[exile]

Thank you for that... that what was bugging me; these kids worked hard to get their diplomas and if the school board don't want a disruptive ceremony then they should do it in private then hold a public one.

Exactly—Or, they should impose penalties on those who actually did the disrupting!. Or something that, like... makes sense! How can the kids control what other people are doing?

Collective punishment sucks, period.

Oh but that'll probably cost too much money wouldn't it? Sigh.

Sure. And it requires some actual planning and foresight, and the willingness to exercise effective oversight, to make the audience behave. Much easier to punish the kids.

Here's an analogy: A defendant's relatives are in the courtroom audience when the prosecutor asks a loaded question in a nasty way. The relatives start yelling and booing; the judge, instead of clearing the courtroom or threatening the miscreants with contempt of court, summarily finds the defendent guilty. Make sense? I didn't think so either! So howzat different from what this school board is doing...?

 

[Shuto]

There's also the issue of how to define 'dignified behavior'.

 

[MA-Caver]

Here's an analogy: A defendant's relatives are in the courtroom audience when the prosecutor asks a loaded question in a nasty way. The relatives start yelling and booing; the judge, instead of clearing the courtroom or threatening the miscreants with contempt of court, summarily finds the defendant guilty. Make sense? I didn't think so either! So howzat different from what this school board is doing...?

Basically it isn't... but what is the school board thinking and what does this do for future grads. What is the struggling sophomore and junior h.s. student going to be thinking as they're working on a final exam ... "hey, wait a second... is this going to be worth it? Am I even going to GET my diploma when I "supposedly" graduate?"
Trying to control people is fascist thinking, behave the way that WE want you to behave. Society as a whole knows basically there's a time for respectful silence and reverence and all of that... church for one thing (well most churches anyway) but at a milestone of a young person's life and how (most) parents have struggled right along with their kids as they made it through the last four years of school... They're going to be too full of happiness and pride to try and contain it and they want their kids to know it. Sometimes a simple pat on the back and a "good job son, proud of you... oh here's the key to a new car" just doesn't cut it.
Vincent Peale said "...enthusiasm makes all the difference..."
How's a kid going to be enthusiastic about GOING to college if they don't see/hear how happy their parents are when that diploma is handed to them? How's the student going to be enthusiastic about going to college to continue their education if they are led to believe that they might not get their degree. Even at 16-18 they're still impressionable and can learn cynicism.
These are the future politicians, doctors, lawyers and other professional people of whatever color collar they may wear... they're the ones who are supposed to take care of us when they get older ... school board needs to think about that.

 

[exile]

There's also the issue of how to define 'dignified behavior'.

And is celebration necessarily undignified? Is behavior at a wedding supposed to be dignified in the way that behavior at a funeral is? That's one of the things that makes me think that the `contract' in question has a hole in it big enough to drive a Hummer through...

...Sometimes a simple pat on the back and a "good job son, proud of you... oh here's the key to a new car" just doesn't cut it.

Vincent Peale said "...enthusiasm makes all the difference..."

How's a kid going to be enthusiastic about GOING to college if they don't see/hear how happy their parents are when that diploma is handed to them?

Exactly. Sounds like a bunch of miserable old sourpusses with pokers stuck up the relevant orifices can't abide excessive amounts of joy on other people's part.

 

[tellner]

It's about power and control, not behavior.

 

[arnisador]

Class action lawsuit time against the school board, IMO. The fact is, the kids were punished for someone else's behavior. This cannot be legal, contract or no contract.

That's my thought, yeah.

 

[Kacey]

Class action lawsuit time against the school board, IMO. The fact is, the kids were punished for someone else's behavior. This cannot be legal, contract or no contract.

Exactly. The parents did not sign the contract... although I see nothing particularly undignified about cheering for a graduate at the commencement ceremony. Now, if a student had done something like, I don't know, mooning the audience while walking across the stage - then maybe. But I can't see how the "contract" is legally binding, and even if it is, it is not the student's fault that others cheered for her. I have a real problem with this type of idiocy and power grabbing.

 

[exile]

It's about power and control, not behavior.

That's my thought, yeah.

Exactly. The parents did not sign the contract... although I see nothing particularly undignified about cheering for a graduate at the commencement ceremony. Now, if a student had done something like, I don't know, mooning the audience while walking across the stage - then maybe. But I can't see how the "contract" is legally binding, and even if it is, it is not the student's fault that others cheered for her. I have a real problem with this type of idiocy and power grabbing.

So then we have to wonder, why do school boards do this... incredibly flagrant behavior? And why do parents, who presumably elect school boards, let them pull this kind of rot?

In so many cases, it seems as though the parents and teachers are on one side, and the school board is on the other. Since the school board is supposed to be enacting the will of the parents, on the one hand, and facilitating the educational mission of teachers to the greatest extent possible, on the other, how does it come about that they wind up setting themselves up as a bunch of smug apparatchiks (sitting atop both parents and teachers) who mostly wind up saying `NO' in one form or another? In almost every community I've lived in, that was the perception of the local board...

 

[tellner]

A lot of it has to do with the changing face of education. Look back a century or so. Schools were designed to turn out factory workers. The day was divided into set periods governed by the bell and time clock. Now it's closer to prison. Kids are under constant surveillance, warrantless searches and routine invasive drug testing. The order of the day is not discipline as a means of fostering learning but compliance for its own sake.

Others have talked about "citizen-suspects", the routine treatment of all as if they are under suspicion. Thirty years ago it was news and a subject for outrage. Now it is so ordinary that most do not notice it. It should come as no surprise that the most powerless - children and adolscents - suffer the most under the new regime.

 

[MA-Caver]

Others have talked about "citizen-suspects", the routine treatment of all as if they are under suspicion. Thirty years ago it was news and a subject for outrage. Now it is so ordinary that most do not notice it. It should come as no surprise that the most powerless - children and adolscents - suffer the most under the new regime.

Well, yeah, it brainwas... err trains them to obey authority without questioning.
Do something outrageous often enough and people tend to ignore it.