Kinghercules
Blue Belt
Hey checkout my new vlog on YT:
Working on a new video to post today.
Working on a new video to post today.
Was Joe Hayes the GOAT of Martial Arts?
- Thread starter Kinghercules
- Start date
jobo
Grandmaster
Apart from the obvious reply, what's a,GOAT ?
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You might want to correct the spelling of "knowledge". It's an ironic word to have misspelled.
Greatest Of All Time.
jobo
Grandmaster
"Was X the GOAT of martial arts" is an impossibly broad question no matter who you are asking about.
Joe Hayes was a top competitor in the North American TKD and point Karate tournament scene in the late 60s/early 70s. That's impressive, but how do you compare his accomplishments to those of, say, Dan Gable, Muhammad Ali, Buakaw Banchamek, Marcelo Garcia, Miyamoto Musashi, Damian Maia, Georges St-Pierre, Eric Knauss, James Figg, Fedor Emelianenko, and many others who fought or competed under tougher conditions against tougher opponents in different time periods in different contexts?
(For that matter, how would you even compare the folks I just listed against each other? You can plausibly make arguments for GOAT status in a certain discipline and context, but beyond that you are into apples and oranges territory.)
Joe Hayes was a top competitor in the North American TKD and point Karate tournament scene in the late 60s/early 70s. That's impressive, but how do you compare his accomplishments to those of, say, Dan Gable, Muhammad Ali, Buakaw Banchamek, Marcelo Garcia, Miyamoto Musashi, Damian Maia, Georges St-Pierre, Eric Knauss, James Figg, Fedor Emelianenko, and many others who fought or competed under tougher conditions against tougher opponents in different time periods in different contexts?
(For that matter, how would you even compare the folks I just listed against each other? You can plausibly make arguments for GOAT status in a certain discipline and context, but beyond that you are into apples and oranges territory.)
What's "ta"? ...As in "ta ta", "bye", or "outta here"?
Ta Tony. Usually I depend upon Tez to instruct me in the Queen's English! Who would have expected such erudition from a fellow colonial?
JR 137
Grandmaster
People often confuse "best" and "greatest" or use them interchangeably. They're not interchangeable terms.
Muhammad Ali was no doubt the greatest boxer of all time. Not a single credible boxing authority would disagree. But most authorities on boxing agree Sugar Ray Robinson was the best boxer of all time. Babe Ruth is considered by many to be the greatest baseball player of all time. Several players have surpassed him in the title of best player of all time.
Greatest is what the person did in and out of the ring. Best means solely what they did in the ring. The two are not one in the same.
Edit: Someone can however be the greatest and best - Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky come to mind. But if a player comes around who's considered better by the experts, that won't make that person the greatest.
Ta muchly!
Just wanted to opine on one of my favorite athletes of all time. Bill Russell.
Michael Jordan was truly great, loved watching him play. But Bill Russell was the GOAT.
Two NCAA championships.
Olympic Gold Medal.
Eleven NBA championships in thirteen years.Eleven...unbelievable. Two of those as player/coach. Some will say you couldn't do player/coach thing today, yeah, well, you couldn't do it back then, either.
Played in ten "Game 7" match ups. 10 and 0.
Headhunter
Senior Master
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The greatest of all time is just a label made up by the media to promote certain fighters, the truth is there's no such thing as the greatest of all time in martial arts because people will always get better and better. Joe Hayes was he a good martial artist? Sure personally I never heard of him but still I'm sure he was good, is there anyone who's better than him? Yes very more then likely. Is there anyone who's better than that guy? Probably yes and it goes on and on
JR 137
Grandmaster
I'll consider the argument of Bill Russell being the BEST. I'll also consider Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson. Russell's resume is far beyond impeccable, to say the least.
But not GREATEST. No one brought in more viewers, media attention, marketing (think of how many jerseys were sold and what Air Jordan brand is worth). People who had zero interest in basketball became tuned in and bought his stuff. He's a household name. People even know his name and don't know he was a basketball player, somehow.
I didn't grow up in Bill Russell's era, so I can't say for certain that he didn't have everything Jordan had off the court. It's also an unfair comparison, as the media attention wasn't the same.
Until I hear a few credible sources saying Russell was greater than Jordan and why, I'll stick with Jordan.
This coming from a guy who wasn't a Jordan fan at all. I was a Knicks fan (I can't watch them after countless bad moves by the ownership and Isiah Thomas) and MJ killed my hopes of winning a championship too many times. And I really couldn't stand him when he pretty much became bigger than the game. And I'm a die-hard UNC fan, so go figure.
Interesting approach on these ideas... need to think on that some more.
kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
I'm still kind of wrapping my head around someone making the jump of someone being the greatest martial artist of all time just because they were really good at playing tag. I mean good on them but it's such a small subset of what martial arts are and can be about.
If we're discussing The GOAT of Martial Arts, it comes down to just two choices.
On the one hand we have the Traditional Martial Arts GOAT....
And then there's the Modern Day Martial Arts version...
Love to see a GOAT off between them. Probably be awesome.
On the one hand we have the Traditional Martial Arts GOAT....
And then there's the Modern Day Martial Arts version...
Love to see a GOAT off between them. Probably be awesome.
Oh, sure. Just like you to bring in a ringer.
