Seeking verification of Mark Timmerman’s lineage (Corpus Christi Family Martial Arts Academy)

LookingForInfo

White Belt
Hi all,


I train in South Texas and would like to verify parts of my instructor’s stated lineage. He is Grand Master Mark Timmerman of Corpus Christi Family Martial Arts Academy. He says he trained directly under:
  • Taika Seiyu Oyata
  • Shogo Kuniba
  • Dr. Moses Powell
  • Kyoichi Yonezawa
  • Stephen K. Hayes
  • Darrell M. Craig
I am not here to attack anyone. I am trying to confirm details so I can make informed decisions about my training.

If you have first-hand knowledge or records, could you share any of the following:
  • Approximate years and locations he trained with any of the above
  • Whether it was ongoing instruction or seminars only
  • Any ranks, titles, or licenses awarded, and by which organization
  • Pointers to public rosters, federation records, newsletters, or seminar lists
Happy to receive DMs if you prefer. I can provide a cropped image from his handbook that lists the same names, if that helps.

Thank you.
 
I'm not sure how I react to this I'm torn between 'would most people get peed off if their students started asking awkward questions about them online'- the answer to which I'm unsure of- and 'OK, well on the other hand if more people did this there would be less money to be made by the frauds'
 
If you publically claim a heritage, and it is accurate why would you be upset? If it is not accurate you are perpetrating a lie and got caught.

If you are a potential student hopefully looking at committing the next several years of your life and probably a couple of thousand dollars. wouldn't it be prudent to do some research, especially in light of the number of McDojos out there? Better to find out early than later in my opinion.

Saying trust me my lineage is valid, is like we don't compete because our skills are to dangerous or we teach a no-touch knock out.

Just my opinion, others may vary.
 
When people refer to themselves as grand master, or some other exualted title, its a red flag to me. I know nothing of the individual but I sent you a message about what I thought about their youtube videos. Again these may or may not have been the best representation of your school's skills. Skill (good or bad) speaks louder than lineage. You could have an awesome teacher who had a lousy lineage of vice versa. Your teacher may be an awesome guy. I have no idea.

My former instructor's, instructor's, instructor's, instructor was Jhoon Rhee. Big deal. It just means my style is a bit of TKD.
 
I don't know anything about Mr. Timmerman, his experience or his skills. But from checking out the school's website and YouTube, I think you may be on the wrong track if you want to evaluate your training based on "lineage".

Confirming an instructor's lineage can be a worthwhile endeavor if you want to check that
  1. An instructor has training in the art(s) that they purport to teach and
  2. Their capacity to teach said art(s) is attested to by some other recognized figure in that art's lineage.
For example, if Mr. Timmerman claimed to teach Toshindo, then it might be useful to check whether he had trained with Stephen Hayes and had been awarded teaching credentials in that art.

If Mr. Timmerman claimed to teach Sanuces Ryu Jujutsu, then it might be useful to check whether he had trained with Moses Powell and had been awarded teaching credentials in that art.

If Mr. Timmerman claimed to teach Motobu-ha Shito-ryu, then it might be useful to check whether he had trained with Shōgō Kuniba and had been awarded teaching credentials in that art.

But from what I can tell from the school website and YouTube channel, he doesn't. Corpus Christi Family Martial Arts purports to teach "martial arts" (unspecified) and "Karate" (once again, the specific type is unspecified). From what I can see in the videos, the Karate being taught is some sort of generic home-brew system. I expect that having created his own homebrew system is Mr. Timmerman's basis for promoting himself as "Grand Master." This system doesn't have any particular resemblance to Motobu-ha Shito Ryu. I definitely don't see any influence from Toshindo or Sanuces Ryu.

From what I can see online, the school does not present itself as part of any specific historical lineage. They promote themselves as a fun, welcoming place for kids and adults to get in shape, learn some self-defense, and develop discipline, respect, and all the other buzzwords used as marketing for parents who are looking for an after-school activity for their children.

If you want to make informed decisions regarding your training, I would look at whether that is what you want in an academy and whether the school delivers on that promise.

BTW, it's entirely possible that Mr. Timmerman has indeed "trained with" all the names on that list in the sense that he has attended classes or seminars that they taught. In my 44 years of training I have attended classes and seminars with a long list of prominent instructors. (Much, much longer than the list attributed to Mr. Timmerman.) That doesn't mean I was ever a regular student of those instructors or that they awarded me any ranks or that I am qualified to teach all the arts that they represented. If Mr. Timmerman claims that he studied "directly" under the teachers he lists, that means ... well not much honestly. It's not a term that has a really specific meaning. It could mean that he went to a seminar or visited their school for a couple of weeks or took a private lesson.

If Mr. Timmerman claims that he was awarded certain ranks by those individuals ... it's probably not that relevant to your training at his school. Even if he was awarded a rank in those arts, it doesn't seem to be part of the curriculum being taught. If he claims a rank that he was not in fact awarded, that would speak to his integrity as a person and it might affect your opinion of him as a person. But since he doesn't seem to be teaching those arts, it shouldn't affect your training.

I should also note that MartialTalk has a policy against fraudbusting. So if Mr. Timmerman in fact is claiming, for example, to have a certain rank in Toshindo that he does not have, site guidelines do not allow posters to be explicitly calling him out for that. But I doubt anyone here has specific knowledge of his qualifications in that regard. (If someone does have specific knowledge that he is claiming particular ranks that he does not have, they can send it to the original poster as a direct message rather then posting it publicly.)
 
Ask him. He must have certificates, photos, etc. Have him to break down each art that he has studied and ask how it now relates to what he teaches. Every teacher I’ve had, was more than happy to explain their linage and what went into the art they taught.
 
Just because someone has acquired a particular skill and is proficient at it does not mean they know how to teach it to others.

The world is full of knowledgable people, of many different skills, who are very poor teachers of that skill.
 
I don't know anything about Mr. Timmerman, his experience or his skills. But from checking out the school's website and YouTube, I think you may be on the wrong track if you want to evaluate your training based on "lineage".

Confirming an instructor's lineage can be a worthwhile endeavor if you want to check that
  1. An instructor has training in the art(s) that they purport to teach and
  2. Their capacity to teach said art(s) is attested to by some other recognized figure in that art's lineage.
For example, if Mr. Timmerman claimed to teach Toshindo, then it might be useful to check whether he had trained with Stephen Hayes and had been awarded teaching credentials in that art.

If Mr. Timmerman claimed to teach Sanuces Ryu Jujutsu, then it might be useful to check whether he had trained with Moses Powell and had been awarded teaching credentials in that art.

If Mr. Timmerman claimed to teach Motobu-ha Shito-ryu, then it might be useful to check whether he had trained with Shōgō Kuniba and had been awarded teaching credentials in that art.

But from what I can tell from the school website and YouTube channel, he doesn't. Corpus Christi Family Martial Arts purports to teach "martial arts" (unspecified) and "Karate" (once again, the specific type is unspecified). From what I can see in the videos, the Karate being taught is some sort of generic home-brew system. I expect that having created his own homebrew system is Mr. Timmerman's basis for promoting himself as "Grand Master." This system doesn't have any particular resemblance to Motobu-ha Shito Ryu. I definitely don't see any influence from Toshindo or Sanuces Ryu.

From what I can see online, the school does not present itself as part of any specific historical lineage. They promote themselves as a fun, welcoming place for kids and adults to get in shape, learn some self-defense, and develop discipline, respect, and all the other buzzwords used as marketing for parents who are looking for an after-school activity for their children.

If you want to make informed decisions regarding your training, I would look at whether that is what you want in an academy and whether the school delivers on that promise.

BTW, it's entirely possible that Mr. Timmerman has indeed "trained with" all the names on that list in the sense that he has attended classes or seminars that they taught. In my 44 years of training I have attended classes and seminars with a long list of prominent instructors. (Much, much longer than the list attributed to Mr. Timmerman.) That doesn't mean I was ever a regular student of those instructors or that they awarded me any ranks or that I am qualified to teach all the arts that they represented. If Mr. Timmerman claims that he studied "directly" under the teachers he lists, that means ... well not much honestly. It's not a term that has a really specific meaning. It could mean that he went to a seminar or visited their school for a couple of weeks or took a private lesson.

If Mr. Timmerman claims that he was awarded certain ranks by those individuals ... it's probably not that relevant to your training at his school. Even if he was awarded a rank in those arts, it doesn't seem to be part of the curriculum being taught. If he claims a rank that he was not in fact awarded, that would speak to his integrity as a person and it might affect your opinion of him as a person. But since he doesn't seem to be teaching those arts, it shouldn't affect your training.

I should also note that MartialTalk has a policy against fraudbusting. So if Mr. Timmerman in fact is claiming, for example, to have a certain rank in Toshindo that he does not have, site guidelines do not allow posters to be explicitly calling him out for that. But I doubt anyone here has specific knowledge of his qualifications in that regard. (If someone does have specific knowledge that he is claiming particular ranks that he does not have, they can send it to the original poster as a direct message rather then posting it publicly.)
When I looked at the website, I got the same impression, generic " martial arts" being offered. No listing of instructors qualifications that I could see.
 
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