Tai Chi as a martial art?

[opr1945138 24]

Years ago I played, and coached, ice hockey. Recently I started studying Uechi Ryu Karate. However, several medical issues have intervened so as to make it currently impossible for me to continue my studies. It has been suggested the Chi Tai might be a possibility for me.

I have watched several videos on line of Tai Chi, frequently described as a martial art. I don't see that in the videos that I have watched.

I found this on wikipedia "Tai chi is a Chinese martial art first recorded in the Late Ming Dynasty. Initially created for combat and self-defence, for most practitioners it has evolved into a sport and form of exercise. As practiced, tai chi uses 'song' (鬆) to ground ones centre of gravity which is harmonised with the rising of the head to produce a central equilibrium and the movements of the forms through asymmetries in balance. Often described as "meditation in motion," tai chi aims to cultivate harmony with the Dao by the effortless manipulation of the body’s structure to produce ''wu wei'; this often expressed as the cultivation of qi, and thereby promotes both mental and physical well-being." (Emphasis added.)

Is this a correct description of Tai Chi today? A sport and form of exercise?

I think I may give it a try, either way.?

Thanks for any opinion/comments.

 

[opr1945138 24]

I left out part of my question above. I mentioned Ice Hockey because I was taught and taught others that the way you skated in practice was the way you would you would skate in a game. That is if you put in a half hearted efort in practice you would put in a half hearted effort in a game. So you should go full steam in practice so would would play at a full steam level in a game.

In the Karate I was expected to put in a full steam effort. So if in an actual self defense situation I would put in a full effort.

Sort of like pulling your punches is not an effective way to train for an all out fight. (?)

How does the slow motion movements of Tai Chi prepare one for a full contact motion punch/block in a street self defense situation?

Thanks

 

[QuantumKitty]

Years ago I played, and coached, ice hockey. Recently I started studying Uechi Ryu Karate. However, several medical issues have intervened so as to make it currently impossible for me to continue my studies. It has been suggested the Chi Tai might be a possibility for me.

I have watched several videos on line of Tai Chi, frequently described as a martial art. I don't see that in the videos that I have watched.

I found this on wikipedia "Tai chi is a Chinese martial art first recorded in the Late Ming Dynasty. Initially created for combat and self-defence, for most practitioners it has evolved into a sport and form of exercise. As practiced, tai chi uses 'song' (鬆) to ground ones centre of gravity which is harmonised with the rising of the head to produce a central equilibrium and the movements of the forms through asymmetries in balance. Often described as "meditation in motion," tai chi aims to cultivate harmony with the Dao by the effortless manipulation of the body’s structure to produce ''wu wei'; this often expressed as the cultivation of qi, and thereby promotes both mental and physical well-being." (Emphasis added.)

Is this a correct description of Tai Chi today? A sport and form of exercise?

I think I may give it a try, either way.?

Thanks for any opinion/comments.

Do you think Cardio Kickboxing is a martial art?

You might answer no. But Kickboxing is a martial art, right?

That is basically the dillemna with Tai Chi in that most of it is inspired by a martial art. But in the same way that you might say Cardio Kickboxing shouldn't be called a martial art, you could make the same argument that most Tai Chi isn't a martial art.

Finding a martial art version of it is finding a needle in a haystack. You are welcome to try hunting, but most have failed.

You basically have to become a treasure hunter if you want something legit.

 

[QuantumKitty]

How does the slow motion movements of Tai Chi prepare one for a full contact motion punch/block in a street self defense situation?

It doesn't.

The origin of Taijiquan is both slow and fast practice.

If all you do is practice slow, you will never be fast. You are what you practice.

Practicing slow is about building bodily connection that you otherwise wouldn't be able to develop through fast practice.

But then you'd also want fast practice that makes use of the body connection developed from slow practice. And... this is the part that most Tai Chi neglects.

 

[Same Trick85 36]

Yes Taijiquan/tai-chi(TJQ) is a different thing compared to karate but in ways similar to ice hockey(omnipresent awareness)
Don’t think of TJQ as a martial art in terms of - “a block here and a strike there”, no TJQ exercises are all about awareness development so to not have to do - “a block here and a strike there” - That’s why it’s called Taijiquan - the great ultimate boxing.

Good TJQ teachers don’t grow in trees.

 

[Same Trick85 36]

How does the slow motion movements of Tai Chi prepare one for a full contact motion punch/block in a street self defense situation?

Thanks

Yes this have many uninitiated scratching their scalps.

The slow paced method of TJQ is so so to able an unbroken flow of mind/body motion, once focus must never be broken.
The authentic TJQ exercise takes about 20 min to complete, so it’s 20min of unbroken attention, TJQ is an ultimate tool for an unwavering mind, simply no gaps of weakness is present.
The slow and steady pace with its correct relaxedness builds endurance and strength, in this relaxed state there is a deep layered dynamic tension going on, quite different from karate’s (Uechi-ryu as example) Sanchin kata with its deliberate muscle contraction but rather from a sophisticated stretch of one’s whole body, someone mentioned “needle in a haystack” and so kind of is TJQ’s strength hidden as “steel wrapped in cotton”.
Yes TJQ is an sophisticated exercise that takes time to harness its qualities, don’t expect a quick fix like the stuff offered at shiny gyms

 

[Buka46 4]

I was fortunate to have the opportunity to train full time for almost forty years. I took full advantage of that opportunity. I trained in a lot of martial arts under a lot of great instructors.

I loved Tai Chi as much as anything I’ve ever done. If it had been available to me full time it might have been the only thing I ever did.

Like @QuantumKitty said above - you might have to be a treasure hunter.

But I think it’s worth it.

 

[Same Trick85 36]

As Uechi-ryu was mentioned in OP.

I was on Okinawa in the late 1980’s, visited Kanei Uechis dojo, as I understood he himself was mostly bedridden at the time so teaching was on his son and other senior students.
Anyways, I witnessed their training enough to see their Sanchin kata differs from goju-ryu’s Sanchin kata, apart from it being done with open hands(no fist) there are some smaller but significant arm movement making techniques less linear indicating specific application not so clear in Goju-ryu’s Sanchin.
I’d say, if replacing the characteristic muscle tension with instead being relaxed in the postures of Sanchin kata and apply some specific TJQ mind method it would become an exercise quite close.to what authentic TJQ aim at.

 

[opr1945138 24]

Thanks. I never heard, saw or read anything about fast/hard Tai Chi. or Cardio Kickboxing either. Probably a whole world that I am ignorant of. Guess I am living a shelter life!

 

[Gyakuto140 149]

I suppose it depends upon the intent with which it’s taught; I’ve seen it taught to cardiac rehabilitation patients on the NHS, as a form of gentle, blood pressure-lowering exercise (it’s fallen out of favour in the last decade or so when the cardiac benefits weren’t deemed much better than taking a regular stroll) to the practitioner here around Torquay (Lisa) who studied Tai Chi at Shanghai university and can make it look very martial indeed

 

[QuantumKitty]

Thanks. I never heard, saw or read anything about fast/hard Tai Chi. or Cardio Kickboxing either. Probably a whole world that I am ignorant of. Guess I am living a shelter life!

This is what I mean by Tai Chi's origin containing "fast" practice:

Tai Chi comes in different "styles".

This video depicts Chen Family Taiji. This is the one that's "first recorded in the Late Ming Dynasty" from your Wikipedia.

Yang Family Taijiquan originates from Chen. They are the first to publicize Taijiquan to the public, making them the most popular and iconic style of Tai Chi today.

Here's an example of Niu Chunming, disciple of Yang Chengfu:

Wu Family Family Taijiquan originates from Yang Family.

Yang, Wu, and Chen are the three most popular styles you will likely run into.

There is also Wu (Hao) and Sun, but those are much rarer.

Sun Family Taijiquan's founder, Sun Lutang, is the guy who really promoted the idea that Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji are "Internal." in the early 20th century.

Those three martial arts also happen to be the three martial arts he learned in that exact order.

In short:

Chen → Yang
Yang → Wu and Wu (Hao)
(Wu (Hao) + Cheng Style Baguazhang + Xingyiquan) → Sun

Those are said to be the five main styles of Taijiquan.

 

[windwalker099140 170]

Years ago I played, and coached, ice hockey. Recently I started studying Uechi Ryu Karate. However, several medical issues have intervened so as to make it currently impossible for me to continue my studies. It has been suggested the Chi Tai might be a possibility for me.

I have watched several videos on line of Tai Chi, frequently described as a martial art. I don't see that in the videos that I have watched.

The best way to judge is to meet with someone who actually practices and see whether it fits what you’re looking for and able to do.

What looks easy on video often isn’t. Tai Chi is frequently offered as an alternative practice, often framed around health or accessibility for those who can’t engage in more overtly physical training. Whether it functions as a martial art depends entirely on how it’s taught and practiced, regardless of the label used to frame it.

I found this on wikipedia "Tai chi is a Chinese martial art first recorded in the Late Ming Dynasty. Initially created for combat and self-defence, for most practitioners it has evolved into a sport and form of exercise. As practiced, tai chi uses 'song' (鬆) to ground ones centre of gravity which is harmonised with the rising of the head to produce a central equilibrium and the movements of the forms through asymmetries in balance. Often described as "meditation in motion," tai chi aims to cultivate harmony with the Dao by the effortless manipulation of the body’s structure to produce ''wu wei'; this often expressed as the cultivation of qi, and thereby promotes both mental and physical well-being." (Emphasis added.)

Is this a correct description of Tai Chi today? A sport and form of exercise?

I would say no — others might say yes.

The description sounds technical, but it’s largely descriptive rather than functional. Using it as a basis for understanding Taiji risks inheriting confusion rather than gaining clarity, especially if one is interested in how the art is actually practiced and transmitted.

I left out part of my question above. I mentioned Ice Hockey because I was taught and taught others that the way you skated in practice was the way you would you would skate in a game. That is if you put in a half hearted efort in practice you would put in a half hearted effort in a game. So you should go full steam in practice so would would play at a full steam level in a game.

In the Karate I was expected to put in a full steam effort. So if in an actual self defense situation I would put in a full effort.

Sort of like pulling your punches is not an effective way to train for an all out fight. (?)

How does the slow motion movements of Tai Chi prepare one for a full contact motion punch/block in a street self defense situation?

Thanks

The premise of what makes it work is quite different labeled as "internal" to distinguishes from practices you'er familiar with which are labelled as "external" The practice itself can be quite demanding depending on ones intended usage...Marketing and those seeking to capitalize on the name "taiji" promoting it as such,,,often do not have the functionality of the original practices the name originated from.

The training model you’re describing assumes practice is about developing speed or power. That isn’t how Tai Chi is structured.

Yang-style Taiji is based on connect, join, adhere, and follow (连、接、粘、随). Slow practice isn’t preparation for later speed or force — it’s a way to maintain these relationships without interruption.

If those relationships are broken, nothing functional exists. If they are maintained, expression takes care of itself and doesn’t need to be trained as a separate goal.

 

[Flying Crane]

My understanding is that at Chen village in China, there is a “light” version of the art that is taught to the typical visitor/taiji tourist. The perception is that most Westerners are not serious about their training, and studying at Chen Village is a bucket-list thing that they want to check off. So they get to learn a couple of forms, and that’s about it.

For the actual family members and serious students of the art, which can include Westerners if they present themselves in a convincing manner, the training is much different. Faster drills, heavy partner work, application, hitting the heavy bag, cardio and strength training, grueling sessions, etc. All the things you would expect to see in any school that takes the fighting art seriously.

 

[opr1945138 24]

Thanks for the information.

At my age, older than dirt, I am not looking to become a fighter. I am just trying to get back movements that I could do 20 years ago. Primarily balance and flexibility. Some increase in strength would also be nice but most likely out of the question.

The teacher I ran across teaches Sun style.

 

[MetalBoar87 5]

I was fortunate to have the opportunity to train full time for almost forty years. I took full advantage of that opportunity. I trained in a lot of martial arts under a lot of great instructors.

I loved Tai Chi as much as anything I’ve ever done. If it had been available to me full time it might have been the only thing I ever did.

Like @QuantumKitty said above - you might have to be a treasure hunter.

But I think it’s worth it.

I agree with you Buka.

I've trained in Tai Chi with a number of instructors over >30 years (not 30 years of Tai Chi, just a sampling of several schools across that time) and only two of them really, directly, taught martial applications, but I got something worth while out of all of them. If someone wants to be able to apply it as a fighting art they may have to really look for an instructor who teaches those aspects, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth the search or that they won't pick something valuable up from the other instructors they meet along the way.

 

[opr1945138 24]

Thanks all.

I have Dr. appointment tomorrow for foot swelling problem, new for me. But I am going to ask for prescription pain killers. The specialist who did the procedure says pain is normal normal outcome for a period of time 4-6weeks deal with it it will go away eventually! Then hopefully back to "Martial Arts" training.

 

[marvin8]

How does the slow motion movements of Tai Chi prepare one for a full contact motion punch/block in a street self defense situation?

Thanks

An article on how Chen Village prepared for full contact fights. "An interview with Wang Yan, head coach of the Chenjiagou Taijiquan School."

Wang Yan in a full contact match, which may have been “rigged...”

Excerpt from “Taiji vs. Muay Thai:”

So I got the links and watched the fights. Sadly, this “match-up” was exactly what everyone says fights in China are like. The fights were rigged – Chinese fighters wore black pants to hide shinguards, referee saved Chinese fighters from anything more than a 3-punch combo, Thai guys were paid to take a fall.

 

[Same Trick85 36]

My understanding is that at Chen village in China, there is a “light” version of the art that is taught to the typical visitor/taiji tourist. The perception is that most Westerners are not serious about their training, and studying at Chen Village is a bucket-list thing that they want to check off. So they get to learn a couple of forms, and that’s about it.

For the actual family members and serious students of the art, which can include Westerners if they present themselves in a convincing manner, the training is much different. Faster drills, heavy partner work, application, hitting the heavy bag, cardio and strength training, grueling sessions, etc. All the things you would expect to see in any school that takes the fighting art seriously.

I’d say that’s the “light” version, the modern “taijiquan” that came about quite recently to compete with the sport MMA vouge

 

[Same Trick85 36]

Thanks for the information.

At my age, older than dirt, I am not looking to become a fighter. I am just trying to get back movements that I could do 20 years ago. Primarily balance and flexibility. Some increase in strength would also be nice but most likely out of the question.

The teacher I ran across teaches Sun style.

The sun-style should do for you, no deep wide stance, generally(I’ll guess) sun-style hasn’t gone down the gymification and teachers of it has good knowledge of the traditional correct principles… go for it !

 

[windwalker099140 170]

At my age, older than dirt, I am not looking to become a fighter. I am just trying to get back movements that I could do 20 years ago. Primarily balance and flexibility. Some increase in strength would also be nice but most likely out of the question.

The teacher I ran across teaches Sun style.

If those are your goals, you might also consider Qi Gong practices, instead of Taiji.

Since you’ve said this isn’t about fighting, the more useful question may be what kind of training best supports balance, flexibility, and gentle strength, rather than which label it carries.

Many modern Taiji classes are taught primarily for health, energy cultivation, and general well-being, often drawing more from Traditional Chinese Medicine concepts than from martial usage.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as the intended outcomes are clear and matched to what is actually being taught. For goals like the ones you describe, some Qi Gong systems may offer a more direct and accessible path. Practices such as One Finger Qi Gong are often well suited to developing balance, mobility, and coordinated strength, and can integrate easily with other activities.

Shaolin Nei Jing Yi Zhi Chan Qigong. "pdf download "