USTC allows....

dortiz

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"They need more Poomse seminars... that should be where they start... not the KuKKiwon Master Instructor License course."

I agree.

Terry, the new competitons expect Dan holders to perform many of the Poomse over 1st and 2nd Dan now. Clearly the message from the Kukkiwon is once you are a Black Belt start working on all of the Black Belt Poomse.
I think its quite different for a yellow belt to try a red belt form than it is for a 2nd Dan to learn a 5th Dan form.
 

dortiz

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"Another words, Are the courses gonna be hung on teaching a 1st Dan, geum gan, tae beak, pyong yon and the people who want to review jitae, chonkwon ect will have to only have a short limited time covering them because of it?"

No, they split the groups up by ranks and teach them seperately. This way thats not an issue.
 

terryl965

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Dortiz you brought up the fact about competition poomsae so I will address it... First and foremost competition poomsae does not always resemble the actual poomsae, lets take Koryo O.K. in the textbook it is a kick to the knee and then to the side of the rib cage but yet in competition poomsae they like to see a kick to the floor and then to the cieling. To me the instructor course should be for actual KKW text book way of doing the poomsae correctly. If you are at the course you should be getting this kind of training not the sport poomsae training you should be getting from your instructor for competition, to be a real instructor course you need to stay with what the KKW teaches just like they do in Korea at the KKW.

I am not bad mouthing the group and what they are trying to do as a whole just concern with the way it is being presented so far. Remember competion is for show and really never get into application and that is where training needs to be address to make this to the calibar that I would like to see. Once again I am not perfect and lord knows I do not know everything but I do have a good ideal what is needed for my B.B.'s and when it should be tought. I have never liked the argument to compare sport vs. tradition to seperate can of worms.
 

dortiz

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"If you are at the course you should be getting this kind of training not the sport poomsae training you should be getting from your instructor for competition, to be a real instructor course you need to stay with what the KKW teaches just like they do in Korea at the KKW."

Terry, in either case the sport or book version the point is its widely accepted if not expected to know the Dan level forms. I agree I want the Kukkiwon to focus on the SD version but was using the competition guidelines as an example of what is expected out there. I think if they want you knowing the forms for competions like Hanmadang which is supported by the Kukkiown its safe to say they will review them in the training.
I am not sure where you are going with this. Your statement above says to be a real REAL instructor, yet you say you should get your sport training from your instructor. Where is that skill set coming from then?
I think we are talking about good instructors in general and what is taught and learned. I think the same guy can say here is an effective technique and here is how you make it look Purdy : )
 

terryl965

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Dortiz I was not going anywhere, the point I am making is what they are teaching at this course if it is traditional than they would not be teaching 1st dan a 5th dan poomsae. If they are teaching the sport aspect then they will be. You said it is what people expect what people exactlt expect to learn three or four forms above there rank? I do not I learn what my G.M. says I should be learning but then again I am old and stuck in my way of thinking. Yes I said a real instructor, then said you should get your sport training from your instructor, I know alot of school that has certain BB run there sport program seperate from there KKW TKD program so that is what I meant.

The last thing I want ot do is be a problem person here on MT, but what I am getting at is what is really being tought, is it worth the cost to be there and does it have value for the KKW type school and also a sport school. Do they take the time to explain what the WTF sportside wants and what the KKW side wants a s well?

I am reallly considering going this year and would like to be able to come back and say yes this was a fantastic training session and I really learned some stuff about poomsae application, but if it is geared more toward the sport side of poomsae than I am really not interested and do not want to be in that type of place. Even though my school does competition we do not change poomsae and do them the KKW way, it does not matter to my players or me if you medal or not with poomsae, the correct way is the only way but once again it is my way of thinking, not asking anyone to change there mind about anything here. By the way I was going to join the USTC this year as a club so I believe there is some value with them, so it cannot be that bad in my eyes.

Last thing last here dortiz i was not trying to put you in any position, you just happen to response to my post so I made a response to your kinda personal I know but since we are the ones communicating I thought this was best. I hope I get to see you there and have a beer or four.
icon10.gif
 

dortiz

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Lol, nothing taken wrong my friend.
It is the norm now for Black Belts to learn the different forms and this is per Kukkiwon. When you say "Thats how my G.M. did it" remember thats exactly why the Kukkiwon is branching out. Not good or bad but yes different.
" Do they take the time to explain what the WTF sportside wants and what the KKW side wants a s well?"
Not really. The sport side is not greatly emphasized. Touched on but thats all.
I think any event that brings together TKDoin will prove to have some value. Also any extra exposure to Kukkiwon and their direction should help any practicioner that says they follow under their guidelines.

By the way I am always down for a few beers with good folks : )
 
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d1jinx

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"They need more Poomse seminars... that should be where they start... not the KuKKiwon Master Instructor License course."

I agree.

Terry, the new competitons expect Dan holders to perform many of the Poomse over 1st and 2nd Dan now. Clearly the message from the Kukkiwon is once you are a Black Belt start working on all of the Black Belt Poomse.
I think its quite different for a yellow belt to try a red belt form than it is for a 2nd Dan to learn a 5th Dan form.


This was one of my complaints about the new poomse rules. I dont like it and dont agree. A 1st dan should be prefecting koryo geum gang and all the taegueks..... not 7th + 8th dans forms.

I dont agree or like it.
 
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d1jinx

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Dortiz I was not going anywhere, the point I am making is what they are teaching at this course if it is traditional than they would not be teaching 1st dan a 5th dan poomsae. If they are teaching the sport aspect then they will be. You said it is what people expect what people exactlt expect to learn three or four forms above there rank? I do not I learn what my G.M. says I should be learning but then again I am old and stuck in my way of thinking. Yes I said a real instructor, then said you should get your sport training from your instructor, I know alot of school that has certain BB run there sport program seperate from there KKW TKD program so that is what I meant.

The last thing I want ot do is be a problem person here on MT, but what I am getting at is what is really being tought, is it worth the cost to be there and does it have value for the KKW type school and also a sport school. Do they take the time to explain what the WTF sportside wants and what the KKW side wants a s well?

I am reallly considering going this year and would like to be able to come back and say yes this was a fantastic training session and I really learned some stuff about poomsae application, but if it is geared more toward the sport side of poomsae than I am really not interested and do not want to be in that type of place. Even though my school does competition we do not change poomsae and do them the KKW way, it does not matter to my players or me if you medal or not with poomsae, the correct way is the only way but once again it is my way of thinking, not asking anyone to change there mind about anything here. By the way I was going to join the USTC this year as a club so I believe there is some value with them, so it cannot be that bad in my eyes.

Last thing last here dortiz i was not trying to put you in any position, you just happen to response to my post so I made a response to your kinda personal I know but since we are the ones communicating I thought this was best. I hope I get to see you there and have a beer or four.
icon10.gif


Terry,

I have been to 5 KKW run seminars. (never the instructor one) and they consistantly say.... this is KKW not WTF. KKW and WTF are different. Theywant technique and skill, not sport performances.

Also, for the record, the last 2 seminars, the higher ranks were asked to step aside, while the lower 1st and 2nd dans "reviewed". I am not paying to go to a seminar to sit on the side and let 1st and 2nd dans practice while I watch. This is my biggest concern...

It was developed for 4th and above.... and has been that way for years. but no longer....

oh, which one were you thinking of going to terry?
 

terryl965

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I was thinking about the one in Chicago, held by the USTC I believe this is right anyway.
 

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