USTC allows....

[d1jinx]

so the USTC has convinced KKW to allow 1st and 2nd dans to attend the KKW master instructor course.

I dont know how to take it. I see their point... but at the same time, it is supposed to be for Masters and school owners. An education about teaching and TKD. If all BB can attend, then what is the point? I thought this was a chance to train with other Masters, not a 1st Dan that had his/her belt a month.... This was an opportunity to train with peers... that have been involved for years and understand that it is thier lifestyle....

Thanks to the forward thinking of USTC President Sang Chul Lee, and also due to popular demand, USTC is now offering the Kukkiwon Master Instructor Course to 1st and 2nd Dan participants!​

1st Dans who successfully complete the Kukkiwon Instructor Course will be certified as P-3 Assitant Instructors.​

2nd Dans who successfully complete the Kukkiwon Instructor Course will be certified as P-2 Assistant Instructors​

3rd Dans who successfully complete the Kukkiwon Instructor Course will be certified as P-1 Assistant Instructors. Once they attain the 4th Dan Kukkiwon they will receive the certification as Kukkiwon Master Instructor.​

Online registration that includes 1st and 2nd Dans for the Kukkiwon Master Instructor Course is live NOW​

I understand the reason to want to educate asistant instructors, but leave that to the Master of that school. Part of becoming a master is learning through experience...

I can't help think this is a money making skeem. Want to educate 1st and 2nd Dans, hold a seperate seminar.

Whats your thoughts?

 

[cmassman]

I kinda think it is a money making skeem, but to keep the doors to an orginization open you do need to make money. I can see the advantage to keeping the lower Dan ranks active in a process to make them better instructors.

I can see the point of having the local master do the training but this leads to a wide variation into what is taught. Having the first and second Dans go through a standardize training course will help to decrease the variation in what is being taught. I just think it will help keep everyone going in at least the same general direction.

 

[terryl965]

It will and always be about making the Benjamins, anybody who truely belives anything else is just kidding themselfs.

 

[dancingalone]

It seems to me that the cost of the course would weed out the non-serious. These are run over a weekend and cost at least a couple of hundred bucks, right?

 

[cmassman]

It seems to me that the cost of the course would weed out the non-serious. These are run over a weekend and cost at least a couple of hundred bucks, right?

I beleive they are now run from Thursday - Sunday and the price when up $50 from last year in Chicago.

 

[dancingalone]

I beleive they are now run from Thursday - Sunday and the price when up $50 from last year in Chicago.

The time investment is not inconsiderable. I really don't see anyone taking the time off from work and then flying to some major city for this unless they are very serious already about taekwondo.

Now if one is questioning participation of 1st and 2nd dans based on 'dumbing' down the course... I would ask is this a real concern? What kind of material is covered in these courses that would make a higher rank restriction sensible?

 

[dortiz]

Sad we have to go down the dark road first guys.

Its not about making more money, its about President Lee wanting 1-3 Dans leading the charge.
There is some fear out there that the Masters of higher rank come but go back and say I am still doing it my way. THe hope is that the newer Dans will actually absorb and impliment the changes the Kukkiwon want.

Lets be honest, I myself heard a very senior USTC Master at the Chicago event say thats different than we do it and we probably wont change it. We all know the schools that still teach Palgue forms because when their Master came over from Korea that was the set being taught and then they kept doing it for years. This also pertains to Tae Geuk and other form changes and technique variations. The world is smaller and the Kukkiwon is trying to reach out. Getting folks to change 30 year habits aint gonna be easy : )
Smart path, change those that will be.
Thats what this is all about.

Its not so much about being a Masters Course as it is an "Instructors".

Dave O.

 

[IcemanSK]

The odd part to me was I remember them saying only a month or so ago that they "would not open it 1st & 2nd Dans" this time around. This reversal of thought seems only as money maker. Pass the hot chocolate.

dancingalone, you have a point. But there are plenty of 1st & 2nd Dans who live near the host cities that would make the trip. Plenty to make it financially worth doing.

As was said above, there are few places where high rank folks get to train with their peers. Certainly, this should be one of those places. Too bad the USTC doesn't see it that way.

Dortiz, I understand your thoughts. You might be right as to what the USTC is thinking..(1st & 2nd Dans are more "open" to change). But the problem is, I question how long the KKW will put up with allowing lower ranks to take the course.

 

[cmassman]

Sad we have to go down the dark road first guys.

Its not about making more money, its about President Lee wanting 1-3 Dans leading the charge.
There is some fear out there that the Masters of higher rank come but go back and say I am still doing it my way. THe hope is that the newer Dans will actually absorb and impliment the changes the Kukkiwon want.

Lets be honest, I myself heard a very senior USTC Master at the Chicago event say thats different than we do it and we probably wont change it. We all know the schools that still teach Palgue forms because when their Master came over from Korea that was the set being taught and then they kept doing it for years. This also pertains to Tae Geuk and other form changes and technique variations. The world is smaller and the Kukkiwon is trying to reach out. Getting folks to change 30 year habits aint gonna be easy : )
Smart path, change those that will be.
Thats what this is all about.

Its not so much about being a Masters Course as it is an "Instructors".

Dave O.

Dave made a real valid point, kinda what I was talikng about in my previous post aobut us all going in the same directions, but being much more direct.

 

[dancingalone]

As was said above, there are few places where high rank folks get to train with their peers. Certainly, this should be one of those places. Too bad the USTC doesn't see it that way.

Thanks for the reply... So is it just a matter of opportunity to train and rub elbows/network with other high dans? (Which is a valid concern by the way.) I'm truly curious if the level of technical information taught would really preclude 1st and 2nd dans from participating.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I think that it is a good idea. I will echo DOrtiz and would like to also point out that many first through third dans are doing more than just assisting. Many are being handed their own classes to run.

Also, I think that it may also help to encourage more 1-3 dans to stick around. If you have to wait until fourth or fifth dan just to take the class, well, a lot can happen in three to fifteen years. An instructor's course half a decade to a decade and a half (depending upon your current rank) is a nebulous fuzzy goal. One that you can go to as a 1-3 dan? That's solid. Also something to keep those high colored belts wanting to stick around past blackbelt.

Daniel

 

[dortiz]

"how long the KKW will put up with allowing lower ranks to take the course. "

As I understood it the Kukkiown loved this idea. It was one of many that helped ensure that USTC was chosen as the Oversees branch over the the other choices. While other groups pitched how to share revenues the USTC went the path of hosting these courses and adding the lower Dans to continue promoting Kukkiwon TKD through education. This is the exact message they support. The Kukkiwon is a non profit Organization.

 

[Miles]

I think there were a number of issues which motivated the decision to allow 1st and 2nd dans to take the course.

Money is certainly a motive-by expanding the numbers allowed, that should increase the amount of money flowing in (but there is some increase in costs involved when you host more folks).

The desire to get standardized information to those 1st and 2nd dans who, unfortunately, are often the front-line instructors in the USA-yes, I believe that was also a consideration. In the USA, anyone can open up a dojang-in Korea, it is much different, you must be a 4th dan and pass this course.

Korea is a smaller country geographically than the USA and information can be shared much faster. It is not so hard for a number of folks to travel to Seoul and stay for a week. It is much harder to do so in the USA so by adding 1st and 2nd dans and having these courses spread thoughout the country, it is sure that more folks will have the standardized material. Also, there is a social aspect as the course allows folks from CA/VA/MO/MI, etc. to meet, train, and socialize....not naming names......

As to Dancingalone's question concerning the material-I don't think it is too much for a 1st or 2nd dan to learn-either the physical information or the material on instructing.

 

[Archtkd]

I think there were a number of issues which motivated the decision to allow 1st and 2nd dans to take the course.

Money is certainly a motive-by expanding the numbers allowed, that should increase the amount of money flowing in (but there is some increase in costs involved when you host more folks).

The desire to get standardized information to those 1st and 2nd dans who, unfortunately, are often the front-line instructors in the USA-yes, I believe that was also a consideration. In the USA, anyone can open up a dojang-in Korea, it is much different, you must be a 4th dan and pass this course.

Korea is a smaller country geographically than the USA and information can be shared much faster. It is not so hard for a number of folks to travel to Seoul and stay for a week. It is much harder to do so in the USA so by adding 1st and 2nd dans and having these courses spread thoughout the country, it is sure that more folks will have the standardized material. Also, there is a social aspect as the course allows folks from CA/VA/MO/MI, etc. to meet, train, and socialize....not naming names......

As to Dancingalone's question concerning the material-I don't think it is too much for a 1st or 2nd dan to learn-either the physical information or the material on instructing.

Great points. Competition might also be another reason the USTC decided to add 1st, 2nd and 3rd dans. The USNTF -- which was, and I think will continue vying for Kukkiwon foreign branch designation -- has been offering good instructor and master instructor certification seminars for years. The USNTF certification is not backed by the Kukkiwon as will be the USTC's, but it still sought by inviduals, especially dojang owners and instructors -- who are trying to improve themselves.

 

[d1jinx]

Ok, so lets look at it this way....

With any instructional course, whether it be college courses or TKD, the class usually gets stuck on one point of the lesson because of the knowledge level of one or more students. Usually the lower level of knowledge.

Another words, Are the courses gonna be hung on teaching a 1st Dan, geum gan, tae beak, pyong yon and the people who want to review jitae, chonkwon ect will have to only have a short limited time covering them because of it?

When I said "train with peers" I ment it. Not to rub elbows and think how great I am. The oppurtunity to train with 5th, 6th, 7th dans does not happen very often.

I understand getting to the 1st and 2nd DANs. I get that... but should'nt an assistant course and a poomse seminar be better for that?


I'm not try to sound standoff-ish.... but I can't stand trying to learn something and one or 2 people continue to slow the process. This wasn't supposed to be a beginners course.... was it? But isnt that what this will become??????

 

[d1jinx]

Great points. Competition might also be another reason the USTC decided to add 1st, 2nd and 3rd dans. The USNTF -- which was, and I think will continue vying for Kukkiwon foreign branch designation -- has been offering good instructor and master instructor certification seminars for years. The USNTF certification is not backed by the Kukkiwon as will be the USTC's, but it still sought by inviduals, especially dojang owners and instructors -- who are trying to improve themselves.

Yeah, I attended it in 2008. Gonna go again this year. Plus they are having another KKW poomse course. You gonna be there?

 

[d1jinx]

Sad we have to go down the dark road first guys.

Its not about making more money, its about President Lee wanting 1-3 Dans leading the charge.
There is some fear out there that the Masters of higher rank come but go back and say I am still doing it my way. THe hope is that the newer Dans will actually absorb and impliment the changes the Kukkiwon want.

Lets be honest, I myself heard a very senior USTC Master at the Chicago event say thats different than we do it and we probably wont change it. We all know the schools that still teach Palgue forms because when their Master came over from Korea that was the set being taught and then they kept doing it for years. This also pertains to Tae Geuk and other form changes and technique variations. The world is smaller and the Kukkiwon is trying to reach out. Getting folks to change 30 year habits aint gonna be easy : )
Smart path, change those that will be.
Thats what this is all about.

Its not so much about being a Masters Course as it is an "Instructors".

Dave O.

True.... I agree.... and I too have heard some say "Im doing it my way still".

But those 1st,2nd dans are going to go back to that same master who said "I dont care...." and have to continue to do it his way.

They need more Poomse seminars... that should be where they start... not the KuKKiwon Master Instructor License course.

 

[Archtkd]

The desire to get standardized information to those 1st and 2nd dans who, unfortunately, are often the front-line instructors in the USA-yes, I believe that was also a consideration. In the USA, anyone can open up a dojang-in Korea, it is much different, you must be a 4th dan and pass this course.

This is a point -- one I had not really though about -- that I strongly agree with. We already have many terrible drivers behind the wheel, so it's not a bad idea to try to teach some of them the rules of the roads on which we all travel. It might help us all if some of those drivers get some preparation before they take on the bigger task of driving the buses in which our kids travel to school. If the USTC or any other organization can achieve that goal, it's not a bad thing. If is the key word.

 

[IcemanSK]

True.... I agree.... and I too have heard some say "Im doing it my way still".

But those 1st,2nd dans are going to go back to that same master who said "I dont care...." and have to continue to do it his way.

This will be the most likely outcome of many 1st Dans coming back from the Course.

They need more Poomse seminars... that should be where they start... not the KuKKiwon Master Instructor License course.

Good thought. It is a better chance of success.

 

[terryl965]

Ok maybe some of you are right it is not about the money.... But to say it is so the 1st and 2nd Dans can get proper instruction of poomsae is a little far fetch in my opinion. 1st and 2nd's should be perfecting there poomsae's and not worrying about the higher one's until it is time.

I know I teach one up from there current rank but to start teaching 1st dan up to 6th or higher is just stupid in my opinion. I wish they would do seminars on applications and proper positioning in a reginal manner and not at a instuctor course.