UFC proves KF useless

[Flying Crane]

Ok, I get a little long here, but its my first post...

Just an opinion,
DrJBN

As others stated, excellent post.

 

[zDom]

Not so true. When Gracie Ju Jitsu was new to the public, the Judo players fell "nearly" as fast as Karate players. Judoists evolved as did the MMA'ers did that they "now" know how to combat BJJ.

I would say, know how to combat BJJ *again* as in, they once knew but had lately forgotten as they became focused on the sport and scoring "ippons."

I believe combat styles are cyclical, as someone opined on MT somewhere along the line.

 

[Danny2712]

well UFC guys go in no holds barred try to knock-out or knock down as quickly as possible because, lets face it, theyre afraid. we all are if we go into a fight whether controlling the fear or not. But MA guys/girls go in with a technique theyve learned and dont compensate for the brawling style used in UFC fights...theres no time for technique unless you train specially. Its not like you do your telegraphic training watching many UFC fights but maybe its a good idea seeing as thats how most streetfighters would strike.

I thought wing chun would do well as you use the other persons strength against them

 

[Andrew Green]

I think you are greatly underestimating the skill involved in MMA fights, it is not (for all but a few lower end fighters) a brawling style. It is very highly technical, but like everything, if you don't understand it, you won't see it.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Traditional CMA were originally designed to teach soldiers to use spears. Not much use for ground fighting in those conditions. I believe TMAs have been modified since those times to focus on empty hand techniques since then, but its roots are definitaly based on the use of weapons first.

I agree with this statement, it would not be practical to grapple with one enemy on the ground on the battle field when the others were all armed waiting to chop your head off or stab you. this would expaln why TCMA did not focus on ground grappling, I believed it was assumed if you were on the ground you were already dead.

I completely disagree that a person needs to go study bjj or wrestling to be able to effectively defend against a grappler, they need to study their style of fighting and methods of training to see if its realistic enough to handle this type of fighting.

I also agreed with this statement, I am a wing chun stylist and have sparred with some Pro MMA fighters at Randy couture's gym. I was able to completely control and dominate them in the stand up component because my style was very alien to them, and they were not able to take me down due to my wing chun structure. However if we chosed to start from the ground, the tables were turned and they dominated me.

"What you have to stop focusing so much on is what the other guy is going to do. If you stick to your technique and follow WC/WT concepts and principles it won't matter much how your opponent attacks, for you intercept their intention and negate their intended technique before they get to finish their movement.
Thus, it doesn't matter if they kick, punch, shoot in to grapple whatever, you focus on flowing with their force and deflecting it from you using it against them. Hence, a TKD attacker doesn't finish the kick, a boxer doesn't finish his/her boxing combo, a grappler isn't allowed to complete a take down or a arm bar. Because you have already executed WC technique to counter their attack from the moment they move.
If your constantly worried about what the other guy is going to do to you you give them the chance to do it by anticipating the outcome, and if you don't stay open minded ready to adapt you play their game and lose.
I've sparred TKD, MMA, and BJJ trained martial artists, and the trick is to stay true to what you train everyday and what you know, have confidence in it whatever art you study, and have faith in your ability to execute otherwise you will lose.
WC's biggest advantage is "getting there first", the quickest way between two points, thus hit them first and follow up quickly and confidently. No time to worry about what the opponent wants to do to you. Only enough time to react.
I've stopped fast and skilled kickers before they can stretch their leg out enough to kick me with WC, I've stopped boxers by intercepting their first jab and crowding their space so they can't follow up with a flurry of combo punching, I've initaiated attack against those that only faint a strike trying to find a "hole" in my guard, and I've stopped grapplers and BJJ/MMA fighters from finishing a takedown simply by strictly following WC concept and reaction."

Not sure who said the above quote, But they are spot on. Often times I don't even know what style my opponent is doing using because he never got a chance to show it. Our strategy is to shut them down and take control. In wing chun if you see you opponent's style it's already too late.

Here is a hung Ga kung fu stylist that won in the UFC using a tiger claw technique from his TCMA style

 

[kung fu fighter]

Thai boxing proves boxing useless

 

[drop bear]

I agree with this statement, it would not be practical to grapple with one enemy on the ground on the battle field when the others were all armed waiting to chop your head off or stab you. this would expaln why TCMA did not focus on ground grappling, I believed it was assumed if you were on the ground you were already dead.



I also agreed with this statement, I am a wing chun stylist and have sparred with some Pro MMA fighters at Randy couture's gym. I was able to completely control and dominate them in the stand up component because my style was very alien to them, and they were not able to take me down due to my wing chun structure. However if we chosed to start from the ground, the tables were turned and they dominated me.

"What you have to stop focusing so much on is what the other guy is going to do. If you stick to your technique and follow WC/WT concepts and principles it won't matter much how your opponent attacks, for you intercept their intention and negate their intended technique before they get to finish their movement.
Thus, it doesn't matter if they kick, punch, shoot in to grapple whatever, you focus on flowing with their force and deflecting it from you using it against them. Hence, a TKD attacker doesn't finish the kick, a boxer doesn't finish his/her boxing combo, a grappler isn't allowed to complete a take down or a arm bar. Because you have already executed WC technique to counter their attack from the moment they move.
If your constantly worried about what the other guy is going to do to you you give them the chance to do it by anticipating the outcome, and if you don't stay open minded ready to adapt you play their game and lose.
I've sparred TKD, MMA, and BJJ trained martial artists, and the trick is to stay true to what you train everyday and what you know, have confidence in it whatever art you study, and have faith in your ability to execute otherwise you will lose.
WC's biggest advantage is "getting there first", the quickest way between two points, thus hit them first and follow up quickly and confidently. No time to worry about what the opponent wants to do to you. Only enough time to react.
I've stopped fast and skilled kickers before they can stretch their leg out enough to kick me with WC, I've stopped boxers by intercepting their first jab and crowding their space so they can't follow up with a flurry of combo punching, I've initaiated attack against those that only faint a strike trying to find a "hole" in my guard, and I've stopped grapplers and BJJ/MMA fighters from finishing a takedown simply by strictly following WC concept and reaction."

Not sure who said the above quote, But they are spot on. Often times I don't even know what style my opponent is doing using because he never got a chance to show it. Our strategy is to shut them down and take control. In wing chun if you see you opponent's style it's already too late.

Here is a hung Ga kung fu stylist that won in the UFC using a tiger claw technique from his TCMA style

who were the pro fighters you sparred?

 

[kung fu fighter]

who were the pro fighters you sparred?

Eon Shirley, and some others whom I can't remember their names at the moment. One of them was an
Albanian Olympic wrestler named Luan whom out wrestled Randy couture himself, Randy was trying to get him to fight in the UFC, but he was already in his late 30's so not sure how that went.

 

[Hanzou]

8 years after the OP, and still no Kung Fu in MMA.

It's very interesting, considering the scope and depth of the Chinese family of martial arts. Some of which are highly external systems that aren't that different from Karate and TKD, both of which have made inroads into the MMA world.

 

[Danny T]

8 years after the OP, and still no Kung Fu in MMA.

It's very interesting, considering the scope and depth of the Chinese family of martial arts. Some of which are highly external systems that aren't that different from Karate and TKD, both of which have made inroads into the MMA world.

How about:
Bao Li Gao, Kung fu MMA and Sanshou.
Liu Hailong, Kung fu and Sanshou.
Marvin Perry, Kung fu, Wushu
Pat Barry, Wushu
Zhang Tiequan, Kung fu, Sanshou
all have done well in mma.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

How about:
Bao Li Gao, Kung fu MMA and Sanshou.
Liu Hailong, Kung fu and Sanshou.
Marvin Perry, Kung fu, Wushu
Pat Barry, Wushu
Zhang Tiequan, Kung fu, Sanshou
all have done well in mma.

Don't forget Cung Le.

 

[Danny T]

Don't forget Cung Le.

Cung Le trained in Karate and TKD prior to Sansho so I didn't use him as a kung fu practitioner.

 

[Hanzou]

I just looked up all of their MMA profiles, and all of them trained in Chinese kickboxing with some also training in Muay Thai, and Bjj. Where's arts like Choy li Fut, Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, Crane Style, Hung Gar, Tai chi, Xingyiquan, etc?

We don't consider kickboxing to be synonymous with Karate.

 

[Steve]

I just looked up all of their MMA profiles, and all of them trained in Chinese kickboxing with some also training in Muay Thai, and Bjj. Where's arts like Choy li Fut, Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, Crane Style, Hung Gar, Tai chi, Xingyiquan, etc?

We don't consider kickboxing to be synonymous with Karate.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but Chinese kickboxing could mean anything. It's a generic term.

And every MMAist trains in multiple arts in order to be competitive in the cage. Why would Kung fu be different?

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[Hanzou]

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but Chinese kickboxing could mean anything. It's a generic term.

And every MMAist trains in multiple arts in order to be competitive in the cage. Why would Kung fu be different?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yes, but Sanshou and Sanda are very specific, very modern arts. They're definitely not traditional Chinese MA, which is what this thread is referring to.

I definitely do agree that every MMAist trains in multiple arts, but I have yet to see someone breaking out a crane stance, a Bagua palm strike, or a one-inch pinch in the Octagon.

 

[ballen0351]

8 years after the OP, and still no Kung Fu in MMA.

It's very interesting, considering the scope and depth of the Chinese family of martial arts. Some of which are highly external systems that aren't that different from Karate and TKD, both of which have made inroads into the MMA world.

Guess we found his next victim

 

[clfsean]

Yes, but Sanshou and Sanda are very specific, very modern arts. They're definitely not traditional Chinese MA, which is what this thread is referring to.

No it's not a modern art. It's a modern take on a specific aspect of TCMA. It's the fighting side of modern Wushu.

You can't have a TCMA without sanda. If it's a "real" TCMA then they're fighting & lots of it. If it's a CMA that professes sanda but is really "fa kuen sow toi" then no, there's not any fighting.

I definitely do agree that every MMAist trains in multiple arts, but I have yet to see someone breaking out a crane stance, a Bagua palm strike, or a one-inch pinch in the Octagon.

And you won't either, but you do anyway. Stances are transitory & are never fixed. But when you kick or lift a leg to block/avoid a low kick or sweep... Crane stance ala Daniel-san for all it's worth. You won't see any palms in sanda because they're not allowed by competitive ruleset. But if somebody plays Bagua & gets in the ring you'll see plenty of punches... which are spear fingers or palms, just with the knuckle of the glove.

 

[Hanzou]

No it's not a modern art. It's a modern take on a specific aspect of TCMA. It's the fighting side of modern Wushu.

Wouldn't that make it a modern art?

You can't have a TCMA without sanda. If it's a "real" TCMA then they're fighting & lots of it. If it's a CMA that professes sanda but is really "fa kuen sow toi" then no, there's not any fighting.

And you won't either, but you do anyway. Stances are transitory & are never fixed. But when you kick or lift a leg to block/avoid a low kick or sweep... Crane stance ala Daniel-san for all it's worth. You won't see any palms in sanda because they're not allowed by competitive ruleset. But if somebody plays Bagua & gets in the ring you'll see plenty of punches... which are spear fingers or palms, just with the knuckle of the glove.

And for all intents and purposes its modern kickboxing with a Chinese twist. When people say Kung Fu in MMA they're looking for the old school stuff, like Drunken or Tiger Style.

 

[Steve]

Wouldn't that make it a modern art?



And for all intents and purposes its modern kickboxing with a Chinese twist. When people say Kung Fu in MMA they're looking for the old school stuff, like Drunken or Tiger Style.

I think you're picking nits. Bjj is modern judo, which was at that time modern jujutsu.

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[tshadowchaser]

can't use tiger or a lot of it clawing is not allowed. Tiger styles do use punching and kicking so you may be seeing it and not know it
AS for drunken well truly do not believe most traditional styles actually have much drunken movements it is more of a MOVIE style. Although I do know some drunken forms are in hung gar and maybe a few in other styles but it is still not an actual style in and of itself