Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
If you had to just choose one? And why?
TMA vs. RBSD vs. MMA
- Thread starter Dark Gift Concepts
- Start date
Wouldn't that other thread cover this question? Well, maybe not, who knows. I'll preface my reply with this....lets try to keep this thread civil. Everyone has and is entitled to his/her own opinions. You don't have to like them, but please respect them. This is just a note for anyone posting in this thread. Its not directed at one person.
As for the question...I suppose it would depend on what you're goal in training is. If you want to compete in the ring, then go with MMA. Could MMA be useful in the real world? I'm sure it could, but unless the MMAist adapts his/her training to the real world, it will have a hole.
TMA...we all train for various reasons, some people just training for the sake of the art. Some train for SD. TMA is fine, but again, depending on what you're goal is, you may need to train differently.
RBSD...pretty quick, simple and to the point. No formalities, no belts, no bowing, etc. As I said in another post, many times its not that they're teaching anything new per se, its the way its trained and taught.
Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
Thank you for the honest reply.
I came from a TMA background fell into the real MMA game JKD and since teaching for the Marine Corps progressed to RBSD. Thank you again for posting with respect.
I came from a TMA background fell into the real MMA game JKD and since teaching for the Marine Corps progressed to RBSD. Thank you again for posting with respect.
The Last Legionary
All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
TMA. Under a qualified instructor, who understands the art and doesn't just do the dance steps. Thisalso requires me to have an open mind and be able to see the "pump shaft" as something more likely, such as a tire iron.
MMA is effective if trained right, but too many people do that thinking theUFC is real.
"Modern" arts are usually hack jobs by people who chop up bits from other arts and lack the experience and knowledge to put the pieces together and fill in the blanks. Not everyone is a Lee or Parker.
MMA is effective if trained right, but too many people do that thinking theUFC is real.
"Modern" arts are usually hack jobs by people who chop up bits from other arts and lack the experience and knowledge to put the pieces together and fill in the blanks. Not everyone is a Lee or Parker.
Like MJS, I think it depends on what you're looking for, and how you get to whichever art you're in. I fell into TKD by chance, and found (to my surprise) that I really liked it. Would I have had the same surprise in another art? I can't say.
Everyone is looking for something different - so every person will, likewise, have a different response. There is no one "right" answer - only the answer that is right for that person. For me, the right answer is a TMA - Ch'ang H'on TKD. For someone else, the answer will be different. To say that there is only one "right" answer is to limit oneself to the possibilities - in MA, or in any other part of life.
Everyone is looking for something different - so every person will, likewise, have a different response. There is no one "right" answer - only the answer that is right for that person. For me, the right answer is a TMA - Ch'ang H'on TKD. For someone else, the answer will be different. To say that there is only one "right" answer is to limit oneself to the possibilities - in MA, or in any other part of life.
The questions seems a bit like asking would you rather be treated by a doctor, an EMT, or a holistic healer. It would depend on what the problem is, and how you feel about what you need. In a trauma situation the EMT can save your life, but a doctor will determine a course of treatment.
Depending on the focus of the practioner, and their experience. I didn my fighting when I was younger, I've been hurt and have had to hurt others, I know what real fighting is like, and at this point, I'm collecting tools for my toolbox, so I look to any source that can give me those tools, but since I'm in in for the long haul, at this point in my life, I choose TMA.
Depending on the focus of the practioner, and their experience. I didn my fighting when I was younger, I've been hurt and have had to hurt others, I know what real fighting is like, and at this point, I'm collecting tools for my toolbox, so I look to any source that can give me those tools, but since I'm in in for the long haul, at this point in my life, I choose TMA.
I think BJJ is one of those transitionals, like EPAK. It's kinda both, 10 years from now will be seen as traditional. My guess.
Me, TMA.
Hey, I like swords.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
EPAK is a new one on me. What's EPAK?I think BJJ is one of those transitionals, like EPAK. It's kinda both, 10 years from now will be seen as traditional. My guess.
Me, TMA.
Hey, I like swords.
"Ed Parkers American Kenpo".
For me, to be brutaly honest, I have never understood this modern fad for reinventing the wheel and claiming it to be somehow improved by leaving parts out.
That is what the non-traditional arts are to me.
People seem to forget that what karate, kung fu, aikido and the rest were created to do is just what the MMA etc advocates claim. Yes, there can be a deeper, spiritual and psychological side to it but at it's root a TMA is about fighting. In most cases it's about more than that, it's about killing. These arts were structured to enable someone to have a chance at winning a combat when they found themselves weaponless.
In my particular case of course, my art these days involves the use of three-foot long razors as injury has left my empty-hand proficiency long behind
.
That is what the non-traditional arts are to me.
People seem to forget that what karate, kung fu, aikido and the rest were created to do is just what the MMA etc advocates claim. Yes, there can be a deeper, spiritual and psychological side to it but at it's root a TMA is about fighting. In most cases it's about more than that, it's about killing. These arts were structured to enable someone to have a chance at winning a combat when they found themselves weaponless.
In my particular case of course, my art these days involves the use of three-foot long razors as injury has left my empty-hand proficiency long behind
.
Personally, TMA is best for me. I like the structure, I like the ability to memorize things and work on those, I like the ability to extend the applications to real world situations and the broad range of techniques. I also like the philosophical aspect that is often lacking in the other areas.
In TMA, the forms, patterns, basics, etc allow a practitioner to take the ideas home and work on them without a partner. Then when a partner is available, work specific techniques. I find that MMA and RBSD pretty much require a partner.
But I fully agree with those above, it depends on the person and the situation. You get into the one that gives you what you need, how you need it.
RBSD is great for short stretches, i.e. learn what you need and get out. MMA is great for those who prefer a much less structured approach and just want to get in there and fight. TMA tends to be better for those who want some structure and don't mind the striking, standing paradigm.
In TMA, the forms, patterns, basics, etc allow a practitioner to take the ideas home and work on them without a partner. Then when a partner is available, work specific techniques. I find that MMA and RBSD pretty much require a partner.
But I fully agree with those above, it depends on the person and the situation. You get into the one that gives you what you need, how you need it.
RBSD is great for short stretches, i.e. learn what you need and get out. MMA is great for those who prefer a much less structured approach and just want to get in there and fight. TMA tends to be better for those who want some structure and don't mind the striking, standing paradigm.
Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
Respected, thank you.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Ah. Right on. Thanks.
I'm still interested in other's views on the questions I asked. I will be able to answer the original post if I know what is considered traditional and what's not.
Judo is among the oldest of the modern styles, predating most (if not all) of the okinawan karate styles as well as TKD. Right? So, is that traditional, or are we considering TMA to be a training model including Kata/Forms etc? Does a style have to be from Asia to be considered traditional, or would Capoeria count?
And again, what about combining traditional styles? If I crosstrained with Kyokushin Karate, BJJ and Shuai Jiao, would I be a TMA'ist or an MMA'er?
For me, to be brutaly honest, I have never understood this modern fad for reinventing the wheel and claiming it to be somehow improved by leaving parts out.
That is what the non-traditional arts are to me.
People seem to forget that what karate, kung fu, aikido and the rest were created to do is just what the MMA etc advocates claim. Yes, there can be a deeper, spiritual and psychological side to it but at it's root a TMA is about fighting. In most cases it's about more than that, it's about killing. These arts were structured to enable someone to have a chance at winning a combat when they found themselves weaponless.
In my particular case of course, my art these days involves the use of three-foot long razors as injury has left my empty-hand proficiency long behind
This is a good point and part of the reason that I prefer to stay with the TMAs. I personally feel that the more modern styles are simply permutations of the concepts and techniques taught in the TMAs. Again, it is just a different way of teaching and presenting, leaving out the parts that some people don't want or need.
But in the end, I personally feel that if you dig deeply enough, it is all there in the TMAs. Many of the older styles were created for battlefield warriors and were tested in real combat, which makes them effective enough for me.
Hi Steve
Why do you think Judo is an old art? As far as I know it is in fact one of the youngest of the martial styles, being 'invented' in the C20th.
Hang on, I'll ask the Tinternet; it's not always the Fount of Truth but it is handy
.
Here's a link to the background on karate:
http://www.ikokarate.com/history.html
and here's one for Judo:
http://www.judoinfo.com/jhist4.htm
I wont address TKD as that would stir up more 'mud' than 'clear water' depending on who chimed in.
A TMA is essentially one that has been practised over many generations and usually has it's beginnings more than a century ago.
I can only speak for myself but it does not have to Asian to be a TMA.
A lot of the re-emerging WMA would fall under the banner of 'Traditional', especially the sword/grappling techniques, polearms and archery, not forgetting the hard-core form of boxing that used to be practised.
As to what 'label' applies if you do more than one TMA? One art or many, you're still a practitioner of the traditional arts. However, I would say that if you progress more than one you're not likely to be aspiring 'to the heights' of understanding in any of them.
I remember sparring with a chap who studied about seven different styles. When I first started in Lau he used to handle me with great ease as I had no idea what was going to come out of the 'tool box'. After I'd advanced to black sash and had quite a number of years experience, the shoe was on the other foot - he could do a lot more techniques but I had reached a greater depth of knowledge of how to apply what I knew.
Anyhow, I'm touching a lot of bases in this one; time to draw breath I reckon :lol:.
Why do you think Judo is an old art? As far as I know it is in fact one of the youngest of the martial styles, being 'invented' in the C20th.
Hang on, I'll ask the Tinternet; it's not always the Fount of Truth but it is handy
.Here's a link to the background on karate:
http://www.ikokarate.com/history.html
and here's one for Judo:
http://www.judoinfo.com/jhist4.htm
I wont address TKD as that would stir up more 'mud' than 'clear water' depending on who chimed in
.A TMA is essentially one that has been practised over many generations and usually has it's beginnings more than a century ago.
I can only speak for myself but it does not have to Asian to be a TMA.
A lot of the re-emerging WMA would fall under the banner of 'Traditional', especially the sword/grappling techniques, polearms and archery, not forgetting the hard-core form of boxing that used to be practised.
As to what 'label' applies if you do more than one TMA? One art or many, you're still a practitioner of the traditional arts. However, I would say that if you progress more than one you're not likely to be aspiring 'to the heights' of understanding in any of them.
I remember sparring with a chap who studied about seven different styles. When I first started in Lau he used to handle me with great ease as I had no idea what was going to come out of the 'tool box'. After I'd advanced to black sash and had quite a number of years experience, the shoe was on the other foot - he could do a lot more techniques but I had reached a greater depth of knowledge of how to apply what I knew.
Anyhow, I'm touching a lot of bases in this one; time to draw breath I reckon :lol:.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Personally, I like the Traditional martial arts. To me, they seem to have a richness that seems to be lacking in modern combat methods.
Personally, I think RBMA is really more of a mindset and training method, and not so much of a regimented system with a codified curriculum. I don't really know much about it, maybe that impression is wrong. But I think you could train any traditional art with the mindset of RBMA, and develop the same ferocity and ability to handle a modern confrontation.
I do believe that most people today in the Traditional arts, and probably any art for that matter, do not train with the same intensity of past generations. Our society has changed a lot, and most of us don't need to. We have the police to protect us and the court system to punish criminals and for most of us, that is effective enough. We don't need to use our skills to defend our very lives on the way home from work.
As a result of this, most people in the martial arts have allowed their training to drop in intensity and realism. But if they are being done the way they were intended, they are very very much "reality based" methods, and are brutal in execution. Thankfully, most people never need to use them on this level.
Personally, I think RBMA is really more of a mindset and training method, and not so much of a regimented system with a codified curriculum. I don't really know much about it, maybe that impression is wrong. But I think you could train any traditional art with the mindset of RBMA, and develop the same ferocity and ability to handle a modern confrontation.
I do believe that most people today in the Traditional arts, and probably any art for that matter, do not train with the same intensity of past generations. Our society has changed a lot, and most of us don't need to. We have the police to protect us and the court system to punish criminals and for most of us, that is effective enough. We don't need to use our skills to defend our very lives on the way home from work.
As a result of this, most people in the martial arts have allowed their training to drop in intensity and realism. But if they are being done the way they were intended, they are very very much "reality based" methods, and are brutal in execution. Thankfully, most people never need to use them on this level.
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
I personally prefer TMA. It has structure, you get to be a part of history while training in it. It is also a lifestyle not just a MA. TO me RBSD is simply a get me to Point B at the fastest way possible and cut out the tedious structure and lengthy training times of a TMA. MMA is great for SPORT but to me that is about it. It can have real world application of course but it all depends on how you train. That goes for any Art or system. You pick the style that highlights your personal goals. I personally just prefer TMA . CMA to be exact . Amituofo !!!!!!!
Dark Gift Concepts
Orange Belt
Thank you all for your shared input. I will not be posting remarks as I have received numerous PM's complaining and no matter what I say it is always wrong in the eyes of M.T. But I thank you for the good spirit's that have followed this thread.
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