TKD school - sparring optional?

[andyjeffries]

Right, your training to be a street fighter, sweet.

How long you been training for street fights? How old were you when you started training for street fights?

A bigger question would be "how many street fights have you had?". A lot of people say they practice their traditional martial arts for street fighting "not that rubbishy rules tournament stuff", but haven't had any serious number of fights. I wonder how many of these people training for that reason would actually have their *** handed to them by a decent tough guy who didn't care about the conditions they practice under...

At least the Gracies were out to prove their stuff was the best in no-holds-barred street fighting by having hundreds of open challenges.

 

[andyjeffries]

Is it really? Compared to who or what?

I wonder what percentage of regular posters on this board have that much experience or more?...

I've started a thread for that question.

 

[mastercole]

hmmm.....44 now.....started training when i was 19.....thats...a long time

look Boss, you want to wear it, go for it. I myself think it looks like a giant maxi pad and serves the same purpose as a regular maxi pad....

down here in Texas, we train with contact, HARD contact, and minimal protection.

The thought process is "if you wont have it on the street, dont get used to wearing it in training."

you are invited to disagree, or not. No sweat off my butt either way

Hey, that's real cool..... Being a bad a$$ street fighter Texas type dude, do you pick up lot's of chicks too? Any tips?

Thanks Tex!

 

[mastercole]

Time is certainly not a good judge of where someone is at in martial arts. Ive met guys who have trained for 40 years but they only show up once a week, put in little effort, spend most of their time walking around the dojang 'socialising' or going to 'meetings' etc etc. Then Ive met people who have ten years experience but they train their backsides off 5 days a week religiously, and spend their spare time working on their kick bag at home and stretching and looking for new ways to improve. Time is all relative. I dont care about belts and stripes and years in grade, I judge someone by what they can do.

My age question had zero to do with training time.

The reason I asked his/her age was I thought he/she was like 12 or 13 years old, I'm serious!

 

[Twin Fist]

your insults and rudeness will not go over here.

you can insult the idea, but NOT the person posting it.

some friendly advice from one who has been slammed for rudeness and behavior in the past.

you need to change your posting style

 

[Grenadier]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep this conversation civil. This forum is for the discussion of Tae Kwon Do, so let's keep it on topic.

Keep in mind, that if you don't like what someone else is saying, then you're always free to use the "ignore" feature, so that you do not see that person's posts.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator

 

[andyjeffries]

your insults and rudeness will not go over here. you can insult the idea, but NOT the person posting it. some friendly advice from one who has been slammed for rudeness and behavior in the past. you need to change your posting style

I don't know if this was aimed at me (as my post could be seen as abrasive, I guess) but if so I was aiming at the idea.

My post purely meant for those of you training for "the street" instead of sport, how do you prove your skill increases or prove "your s*** works" in street terms ;-)

As I said, the Gracies put their money where their mouth is and still do. I wonder how many others who claim they are training for self-defence and denigrate sport training actually put their stuff to the test.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I don't know if this was aimed at me (as my post could be seen as abrasive, I guess) but if so I was aiming at the idea.

My post purely meant for those of you training for "the street" instead of sport, how do you prove your skill increases or prove "your s*** works" in street terms ;-)

As I said, the Gracies put their money where their mouth is and still do. I wonder how many others who claim they are training for self-defence and denigrate sport training actually put their stuff to the test.

Outside of the UFC, how do the Gracies put their money where their mouth is with regards to self defence? Not saying that they don't; but the only non-UFC statistic that I associate with the Gracies is their misrepresentation of the LAPD statistic regarding taking suspects to the ground.

Daniel

 

[Earl Weiss]

Outside of the UFC, how do the Gracies put their money where their mouth is with regards to self defence? Not saying that they don't; but the only non-UFC statistic that I associate with the Gracies is their misrepresentation of the LAPD statistic regarding taking suspects to the ground.

Daniel

They have welcomed and engaged in challenge matches for decades.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

They have welcomed and engaged in challenge matches for decades.

Specifics please. UFC rules? BJJ rules? Open karate tournament rules? Bring your knife and we'll fight you unarmed? Bring your gun and we'll fight you unarmed?

Tournament style fighting and one on one unarmed dueling do not equate to self defence.

Note: I am not saying that the Gracies cannot defend themselves. But if I were going to seek out a school to learn self defense, Gracie jiujitsu is not what comes to mind.

That doesn't mean that it shouldn't, which is why I asked what they have done with regards to self defense.

But if all that they've done is invite people to come roll with them, then I do not consider that self defence, though I do respect it.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

wasnt talking to you andy, sorry if you thought i was.

I don't know if this was aimed at me (as my post could be seen as abrasive, I guess) but if so I was aiming at the idea.

My post purely meant for those of you training for "the street" instead of sport, how do you prove your skill increases or prove "your s*** works" in street terms ;-)

As I said, the Gracies put their money where their mouth is and still do. I wonder how many others who claim they are training for self-defence and denigrate sport training actually put their stuff to the test.

 

[Twin Fist]

They have welcomed and engaged in challenge matches for decades.

yeah, in thier schools, under thier rules, on nice soft cushy floors.......


try that rolling around crap on cement.

 

[andyjeffries]

yeah, in thier schools, under thier rules, on nice soft cushy floors.......

In their schools under no rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_Challenge

Doing a youtube search for that term should show some examples.

try that rolling around crap on cement.

Are you serious? It's really not that hard to roll around on cement and for masters who have been doing that "rolling around crap" for many years it's really not that hard to move their weight so they are heavy on their opponent but light during landing/moving impact.

Here's a YouTube video that shows a fairly average guy doing forward rolls and back breakfalls on concrete. If you're telling me that a GJJ master can't land softly you are deluded.

This is coming across seeming you think you're the only guys who have an effective self-defence system. That's disrespectful to everyone else out there and looks very naïve when the comparison we're currently drawing is the famous Gracie family.

I'd be interested to know if you've ever trained with a Gracie?

I haven't, but I have done about 6 months BJJ so far and I have to tell you when I hear people's opinions like it's "two gay men cuddling and rolling around" I feel sorry for them as they have no ********** idea what they're talking about until they've tried it...

You may not like ground fighting, but their hundreds/thousands of challenge matches over the years have proved that their system has merit.

 

[andyjeffries]

Specifics please. UFC rules? BJJ rules? Open karate tournament rules? Bring your knife and we'll fight you unarmed? Bring your gun and we'll fight you unarmed?

Very simple - unarmed no rules, come along to the dojo, put up some money, we'll match it and the winner takes all. However, I did hear a rumour that the Gracies rarely kept the money when they won (but that may be incorrect).

Tournament style fighting and one on one unarmed dueling do not equate to self defence.

Absolutely, and I wouldn't call this tournament style fighting.

But if all that they've done is invite people to come roll with them, then I do not consider that self defence, though I do respect it.

It wasn't rolling (assuming you mean the BJJ term for sparring, not a generic term for two people just rolling around), it was "you can do what you want". I can't remember if it's in the documentary "Choke" or the one about Renzo Gracie, but there was quite a bit of footage in their of the early challenge matches.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Very simple - unarmed no rules, come along to the dojo, put up some money, we'll match it and the winner takes all. However, I did hear a rumour that the Gracies rarely kept the money when they won (but that may be incorrect).



Absolutely, and I wouldn't call this tournament style fighting.



It wasn't rolling (assuming you mean the BJJ term for sparring,

Yes, I mean BJJ term for sparring.

not a generic term for two people just rolling around), it was "you can do what you want". I can't remember if it's in the documentary "Choke" or the one about Renzo Gracie, but there was quite a bit of footage in their of the early challenge matches.

That isn't doing anything for self defense. That is exactly what I had said earlier: two man dueling, not self defense.

Don't get me wrong, I respect that they do it and tip my hat to them. But again, that is not about practical self defense.

Secondly, saying 'no rules' is false. At least two rules are in effect: no weapons and nobody is going to die. Chances are, a third rule, no buddies waiting to jump in to help an opponent, is probably in place.

A two man duel in an agreed upon time and setting, presumably for set period of time, and certainly under the supervision of others, is not self defense.

It always surprises me that people equate such a thing to self defense. Is a two man duel a serious challenge? Yes. Do you use some techniques that one could apply in a real world self defense scenario? Yes. But is it actually self defense? No.

Daniel

 

[Earl Weiss]

Specifics please. UFC rules? BJJ rules? Open karate tournament rules? Bring your knife and we'll fight you unarmed? Bring your gun and we'll fight you unarmed?

Tournament style fighting and one on one unarmed dueling do not equate to self defence.

Daniel

Fom the videos out there it appears to be UFC type rules.

 

[Earl Weiss]

yeah, in thier schools, under thier rules, on nice soft cushy floors.......


try that rolling around crap on cement.

They'll be the first to tell you to try and not go to the ground in a self defense situation.

 

[ETinCYQX]

They'll be the first to tell you to try and not go to the ground in a self defense situation.

Definitely my line of thinking, but being comfortable on the ground is a huge asset in a self defense scenario. The fact is, there are people who are going to be able to take you to the ground and when that happens, being able to play a good guard, being able to sweep from the guard, and being able to control an opponent on the ground are suddenly not so much "rolling around crap"

 

[Twin Fist]

Andy,
i place very little to no self defense value in bjj.

But it isnt in bjj ALONE, i place little to no self defense value in WTF olympic style korean kick boxing, or for that matter in most of what is passed off as karate these days.

The Gracies are famous because they set up a contest that was designed for them to win, and they did win it, for about 2 years, then they started losing once everyone figured out how to grapple AND strike and none of the gracies can throw a decent punch.....

BJJ is a great sport, but it isnt a self defense art.

IMO

you dont have to agree

This is coming across seeming you think you're the only guys who have an effective self-defence system. That's disrespectful to everyone else out there and looks very naïve when the comparison we're currently drawing is the famous Gracie family.

I'd be interested to know if you've ever trained with a Gracie?

I haven't, but I have done about 6 months BJJ so far and I have to tell you when I hear people's opinions like it's "two gay men cuddling and rolling around" I feel sorry for them as they have no ********** idea what they're talking about until they've tried it...

You may not like ground fighting, but their hundreds/thousands of challenge matches over the years have proved that their system has merit.

no, it proves that people with no clue how to deal with the ground can be taken to the ground and beaten by someone who does nothing else.....

 

[Steve]

This is the TKD subforum, for christ's sake. Why are you guys arguing here about whether BJJ is good for self defense or not in a thread entitled "TKD school - sparring optional?"

I personally believe that few martial arts styles teach self defense. Unless you teach situational awareness, conflict avoidance, solid communications skills and a host of other skills that are much more likely to keep a person safe, you don't teach self defense. You teach, to some degree or another, how to fight. BIG difference. Stop kidding yourselves.