The whole McDojo thing!

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

I'm not sure how to take alot of this thread....

i wouldnt bother even wondering, dutch has gone off the deep end, thought id just have my two bits worth on the monarchy thing, totally off subject, sorry.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Deep end? Thats 1 way to put it.

After a few of those comments back there, more than 2 bits worth was appropriate. Thanks for only spending the pocket change.

:asian:

 

[deadhand31]

Originally posted by Dutch
any self-defense style you can spar with is a game or is inneffective!!

The Dragon Kenpo way, however, is the way of never ending learning and discovery. The techniques taught are guides that develop greater skill, not boundaries that none may cross. The traditional arts are in the business of setting limitations.
valid and more importantly real self defense system. Unlike most of the frauds out there. because we do things differently the rest of the community scoffs at us. We don't care. We're the real thing. [/B]

ok, Dutch, isn't that being a little arrogant and bold? Claiming that yours is the only system that strives on constant and never ending improvement? Stating that nothing can be learned from sparring? Claiming that your art is "too deadly to be effective in tournaments"? jeez.. you're starting to sound like that chung moo freak.

While sparring does somewhat limit what we can do, it's important to spar anyway so you can recognize patterns. It teaches you to read people. It teaches you to recognize openings, even if they are ones that cannot be taken in sparring, but can in combat. Can you honestly say that ball-roundhouse straight to someone's gut won't stop them? Or a that a sidekick to the face won't hurt someone?

I believe Gou Rounin once stated that "to dismiss a technique as unusable is ignorance." Remember Dutch, there's a situation for everything.

:redeme:

 

[fist of fury]

Wow this thread seems to be stopping in the twilight zone.
:erg:

 

[deadhand31]

www.dragonkenpo.com

Geez, this is like a chung moo website! Most of the stuff he said against traditional arts was straight from the website! One funny thing, it says people who are sparring with gloves are limited, and are going to learn how to be boxers, not fighters. But take a look in their "champions" section. All of the champions who are providing testimonials are..... you guessed it! BOXERS! PEOPLE WHO'S CHAMPIONSHIPS DEPEND ON PUNCHING WITH GLOVED HANDS! I wonder how much they paid them for their testimonials....
:rofl:

It also makes claims that any instructor who teaches sparring:

1) The instructor didn't prepare a lesson for that night and wishes to create the illusion of education while actually killing time.

2) He REALLY, REALLY doesn't like one of those students.

3) He doesn't realize he's not teaching street self defense, which is the scariest of the three.

However, Dutch's "school" claims that you can be a deadly fighter by watching their videos. A certificate even comes with the videos!Tell me Dutch, if I buy a "Premium Package", will I get a certificate for being a grandmaster of my own system?

:fart:

 

[fist of fury]

I'm not a kempo practioner but doesn't this hold true to most good kempo practioners anyway.
The Dragon Kenpo way, however, is the way of never ending learning and discovery. The techniques taught are guides that develop greater skill, not boundaries that none may cross. Greatness, after all, is not achieved by thinking within limits prescribed by convention.

 

[fist of fury]

And of course who could doubt one of the greatest martial art figures of our time.
Or, as David Carridine said in his book, Spirit of Shaolin, "Presenting the styles as though they were little ballets of combat, makes for grace and prettiness, but this path leads to something soft and almost effeminate, and without much depth or substance." I couldn't agree more.

 

[deadhand31]

I just think it's funny how they claim that sparring is teaching people to be boxers, and not fighters, while the testimonials are provided by boxers who probably won with punches that would break their hands in a street scenario!

And take a look at that demonstration. Now, I suppose if you are fast enough, you can get behind that guy, but to do a push kick to the spine? You'll basically push him forward. Remain in a ready stance, you'll have a guy who's really pissed off coming at you again. How about a left hand upper block, followed by a triangle lock on the guys arm, and wrenching his arm down past his shoulder, bringing him to the ground? That way you have a guy who's locked up, and can easily end up with a dislocated shoulder if he doesn't calm down. That way you have total control of the attacker, and since he won't be injured, you don't have to worry about lawsuits from the guys family. Obsolete traditional moves, my ***.


I won't say that dragon kenpo is a bad system, but if Dutch got his training from that "school" at www.dragonkenpo.com , he is most definitely in a McDojo of the highest form!

 

[TLH3rdDan]

lmao this is so sad... now that ive seen that web site i remember where i had heard about dragon kempo that guy used to run an ad in black belt magazine about 5 or 6 years ago hocking his damn tapes and black belts... pretty sad... and i love how dutch so diligently copied word for word from the website that was good... i also love the fact that this hutchenson guy is a boxer and that all of his testimonials are from boxers... this is such a joke this is almost worse than the chung moo thing at least with chung moo they had schools for these people to go too... with this you just sit at home and watch videos the guy probably does not even have a school anywhere... and then when he is harping about certification on how cops re-certify every so often and black belts dont, but yet he offers no re-certification in his style hell how does he even know you have learned the techniques properly... and i wonder if this guy really has studied anything other than boxing... so dutch how long did it take you to get your certification in dragon kempo about 2 to 3 weeks? lol.

 

[deadhand31]

Hey! I've been reading Dutch's posts!! Apparently, Dutch was in a scuffle with Gou, and dutch got distracted by a shot glass, and soon after, Gou beat him up, and had him on the floor!!! Here we have dutch, saying that with conditions today, tradition is obsolete, but his "extensive video training" couldn't save him from a tiny glass!!! He also called Gou "Cheap and dirty". Well, his video set seems to claim to "prepare you for the streets". Hmm, I suppose they think street-fights are going to be nothing but good, clean fun. Sounds like someone should have purchased the "Grandmaster Certification Package"!!! Complete with a gold rhinestone studded belt!!!

 

[Cthulhu]

I find it odd that Dutch complains about Gou's 'dishonorable' tactics, yet at the same time, he constantly puts down tradition.

If his Dragon 'Kempo' was so into realistic combat, then he should have known to expect the unexpected.

Maybe he should see if he can get a refund from his purchased certificate?

Cthulhu

PS - Dutch reminds me an awful lot of an idiot who called himself 'Zeeberex' on RMA years ago. Anyone remember that twit?

 

[deadhand31]

No, but if you could post a link, or elaborate a bit?

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by deadhand31

No, but if you could post a link, or elaborate a bit?

Just go to Google, click on the 'Groups' button, and do a search for Zeeberex. You'll pull up loads up USENET posts by him, to him, and about him from about 6 years ago or so, mostly from rec.martial-arts (or whatever the hell it is...don't care anymore).

Cthulhu

 

[TLH3rdDan]

well death maybe since the guy selling this crap is a boxer and all of his glowing testimonials are from boxers maybe it only really applies to street fights that happen in a boxing ring or something lol i dont know

 

[deadhand31]

Interesting Note: On Dutch's website, under research, they have an article by Dr. Bobby Newman. (his site can be found at www.room2grow.org ) On Dutch's site, he claims to have evaluated the video tapes, and states that there is no difference in the end result of video teaching and real instruction. Funny thing is, the doctor is a child psychologist.

And I have a question for Golden Dragon or Gou: He claims to be able to promote people to 7th degree black belt, yet his profile says that he's only first. Can someone quell my confusion?

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by deadhand31

ok, Dutch, isn't that being a little arrogant and bold? Claiming that yours is the only system that strives on constant and never ending improvement? Stating that nothing can be learned from sparring? Claiming that your art is "too deadly to be effective in tournaments"? jeez.. you're starting to sound like that chung moo freak

Chung Moo Doe has no where near the technique of Dragon Kenpo. We use our art on the street.

Originally posted by deadhand31

I believe Gou Rounin once stated that "to dismiss a technique as unusable is ignorance." Remember Dutch, there's a situation for everything.

He also slept with my girlfriend. I cannot accept that he has any honorable thoughts on anything.

Originally posted by deadhand31

However, Dutch's "school" claims that you can be a deadly fighter by watching their videos. A certificate even comes with the videos!Tell me Dutch, if I buy a "Premium Package", will I get a certificate for being a grandmaster of my own system?

At my school you must earn your rank through hard work. I started the school through a Dragon Kenpo package and worked into a certified instructor.
Again, if you look carefully, you'll see it is not MY website but rather the international one. Again, you have to look carefully, obviously you have not. I mean, you're still studying another ineffective style. You have not looked very carefully.

 

[deadhand31]

Oh no! Mr. Video Certified instructor is bashing my style! Well, then what is your website? Do you have one? Perhaps you can share why Ji Do Kwon Tae Kwon Do is inneffective? Do you have experience with Ji Do Kwon? Do you have any credentials? If your art is so deadly, why didn't it save you from a tiny glass? You started your school through a package? Please describe this package. Are you going to address these questions, or are you going to bash my style like an infant?

Oh, and on a side note, Gou just didn't sleep with your girlfriend, your girlfriend also slept with Gou.

 

[Dutch]

Since there are so many questions and you all obviously want to know the true extent of my style I will try and set you all straight with this post.

We are not a McDojo. We sell hard working realistic techniques that will save you when you need it. Unlike cheesy kata that doesn't do anything for you.

Of course I took stuff from the national site. It's all true. The truth is always the truth.

Gou beat me only because he threw a shot glass in my face and was so dihonorable that he can't stand up and fight fair, man to man. I will be prepared next time. My students were there and assisted me but would not let me go back and attack him to regain my honor. To keep my students safe I agreed not to return that day.

As a certified instructor as well as a black I can rank to any degree I want. Even higher than myself.

My girlfriend came back to me when she realized that Gou was using her and she meant nothing to him. Gou was decietful and needs to be taught a lesson. I don't care if he is friends with Tim Hartman or not.

Dragon kenpo is the most effective style in the world today for most people. Once you all realize it and remove the blinders you will be wanting to run out and study it. Until then I will remain an island in a sea of truth.

 

[deadhand31]

Well Dutch, I'll keep an open mind. But until you can tell my why Ji Do Kwon is inneffective, and answer the questions I asked, I'll still learn Ji Do Kwon. But tell me, if your art is so deadly, why couldn't you prepare for the unexpected? Are you expecting street people to have more honor? Why did you want to go back to a fight, don't you know that it's better not to go into a confrontation that can be avoided? And are you going to describe the Dragon Kenpo package? Also, when are you going to tell me your experience with Ji Do Kwon?

 

[Dutch]

You are not ready. Your mind is not open.