The whole McDojo thing!

[brianbarton]

I have only been a member of MartialTalk for a little while, which means that somewhere along the way I have missed out on the whole McDojo joke.

Could someone please fill me in.

 

[Kirk]

http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=638

That's the joke. Put mcdojo in your search engine, and you'll
see a lot.

 

[arnisador]

Someone posted this link earlier in another thread (along similar lines). I liked this quote:

Black Belt: You are well-known for having made a controversial statement: "The martial arts weren't popular until they were made easy." Please explain.
Gary Alexander: Many of the guys who laid the groundwork in this country for the martial arts were ex-military people like myself. We practiced a certain type of martial arts at a certain level, and now we see the arts diminishing. They're turning into anything but martial arts. There are too many "friends" out there selling things like phony rank and workouts that are nothing more than aerobics sessions. This is fine for fitness, but you shouldn't slap a black belt on people who do it. If you're going to do martial arts, there has to be impact and conditioning. The word that used to be associated with black belt was "coveted" because not too many people could earn one.

BB: You seem very passionate about this.
Alexander: It does bother me quite a bit. For example, how many judo schools do you see out there? How many phony judo black belts? Very few, because you can't pretend to be good at judo. Or boxing. But karate has a certain mystique that allows a lot of wannabe practitioners to say things like, "We can't do this technique because it's too deadly." I don't fall for this or for statements like, "The instructor is such a grandmaster that he can't get out on the mat and divulge all his secret deadly techniques." What you really have is a bunch of snakeoil salesmen.

I have added the color. Indeed, how often do you meet a judoka who is sub-par? Not as often as a karate-style punch-and-kicker I'll wager.

 

[Dutch]

We don't let anyone who sucks study our style. We send them over to the TKD school.

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Dutch

We don't let anyone who sucks study our style. We send them over to the TKD school.

hey there dutch
before you sledge TKD, all i have to say is that i hope fred ettish the 2nd degree black belt from the early UFC's and that other guy from UFC 3 (cant remember his name) are indicative of kenpo karate either, because they couldnt fight to save themselves.

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by Dutch

We don't let anyone who sucks study our style. We send them over to the TKD school.

Oh, really? Then you don't allow them to train with you so that they may become better? How obtuse.

Cthulhu

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by thaiboxer
hey there dutch
before you sledge TKD, all i have to say is that i hope fred ettish the 2nd degree black belt from the early UFC's and that other guy from UFC 3 (cant remember his name) are indicative of kenpo karate either, because they couldnt fight to save themselves.

Fred Ettish does what we call, "Fetal Fighting." It involves falling on your back and clawing the sky with feet and hands. Dragon Kenpo could have saved him.

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Oh, really? Then you don't allow them to train with you so that they may become better? How obtuse.

Not everyone can be a brain surgeon. The world needs ditch diggers too.

 

[white dragon]

grrr..... so tkd students are the equal of ditch diggers?
Well maybe that's just because you've got a mcdojo there, then again maybe you're in a mcdojo but are too blind to know.

Seriously though, please don't bash us until you've been to a proper class, it really pisses me off....

 

[brianbarton]

Originally posted by white dragon

grrr..... so tkd students are the equal of ditch diggers?
Well maybe that's just because you've got a mcdojo there, then again maybe you're in a mcdojo but are too blind to know.

Seriously though, please don't bash us until you've been to a proper class, it really pisses me off....

I definately second that. The class I attend is both physically and mentally difficult. Each student spends many hours learning to defend against the most difficult and nasty of attacks in the unlikely event should an attack happen.

The lack of courtesy shown in the way people disrespect other styles suggests to me that perhaps they are the students of a McDojo as any other dojo would not encourage this sort of contempt.

 

[white dragon]

As a class should be, I would feel cheated if I didn't come away from a class feeling that I'd been made to put my all into it, both mentally and physcially and not learned something from it. It doesn't have to be a new kick or technique as long as I've gained some understanding of those I already know, be it application or technique.

I think the whole McDojo tihng could be quickly over come if people started to ask why it is they're doing what they're told to. And if they weren't in a McDojo to start with they shouldn't have to as the instructor should have told them whilst demonstrating the technique.

The lack of courtesy shown in the way people disrespect other styles suggests to me that perhaps they are the students of a McDojo as any other dojo would not encourage this sort of contempt.

Either that or they have a BIG problem with their ego!

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by brianbarton
I definately second that. The class I attend is both physically and mentally difficult

Difficult to take your wallet out to pay for that next rank test?

Originally posted by brianbarton
Each student spends many hours learning to defend against the most difficult and nasty of attacks in the unlikely event should an attack happen.

How hard can it be to learn how to get hit, fall down, and cry? It's not unlikely that TKD people will take a beating. It's highly likely.

Originally posted by brianbarton
The lack of courtesy shown in the way people disrespect other styles suggests to me that perhaps they are the students of a McDojo as any other dojo would not encourage this sort of contempt.

Sure sure. Don't project your fantasies on me.
:shrug:

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by white dragon
I think the whole McDojo tihng could be quickly over come if people started to ask why it is they're doing what they're told to

That's a good start. Of course it would also be better if people didn't pass out rank like it was water and have a zillion belts to charge a student to test for.

TKD made it's own bed and now the rest who are half decent suffer for it.

 

[white dragon]

DUTCH -

Can I ask how much it is you're asked to pay for your lessons? At my club I only pay £1 for a 2 hour session three time a week. That's about $1.5 to you. I can't believe you pay less than that? So you can scratch the idea that I'm being cheated out of my money right away.

How hard can it be to learn how to get hit, fall down, and cry? It's not unlikely that TKD people will take a beating. It's highly likely.

Why is it you seem to have this idea that you can beat the crap out of anyone studying tkd? My only answer is that you come over one Tuesday, Wednesday, Sunday or Friday and I'll be glad to show you how we're trained to fight. Then again if you don't consider me enough of a challenge then I'm sure my senior instructor would be more than happy to help...

That's a good start. Of course it would also be better if people didn't pass out rank like it was water and have a zillion belts to charge a student to test for.

Up to black belt there are (WTF style) only 9 belts upto and including 1st Dan. I have no idea how many there are in your system, maybe you care to enlighten me?

 

[Kirk]

I definately second that. The class I attend is both physically and mentally difficult. Each student spends many hours learning to defend against the most difficult and nasty of attacks in the unlikely event should an attack happen.

Taebo is physically and mentally difficult to many. This doesn't
prove anything. As for the most difficult and nasty of attacks,
how do you know? What do you have to make reference to it?

I don't want to be grouped in with those posting harsh comments
about your style. I'm legitimately curious, because all of the
TKDers that I've met think that they can defend against anyone,
with a rear leg front roundhouse kick to the head. Is this
what you believe? Tell me some of the attacks you're taught
to defend against, and how you defend against them.

Also, take note .. those with the harsh comments about your
style are talking about American and/or Olympic style TKD for the
most part. Maybe they (I group myself in this time) have never
seen the TKD that you talk about?

Dutch - you should check your attitude some. It's no doubt you
feel superior, studying a superior style. How about posts as to
why, instead of just trying to get a rise out of people?

 

[arnisador]

Please, everyone, keep the discussion more respectful.

-Arnisador
-MT Mod-

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by white dragon
DUTCH -Can I ask how much it is you're asked to pay for your lessons? At my club I only pay £1 for a 2 hour session three time a week. That's about $1.5 to you. I can't believe you pay less than that? So you can scratch the idea that I'm being cheated out of my money right away. Up to black belt there are (WTF style) only 9 belts upto and including 1st Dan. I have no idea how many there are in your system, maybe you care to enlighten me?

Wow...how much do you pay for testing fees and international fees and regional fees and all the other Fees that line the pockets of TKD?

In my system we have white/brown/black. You either get with the beat down or you don't. We don't promote people for showing up.

Originally posted by white dragon
Why is it you seem to have this idea that you can beat the crap out of anyone studying tkd? My only answer is that you come over one Tuesday, Wednesday, Sunday or Friday and I'll be glad to show you how we're trained to fight. Then again if you don't consider me enough of a challenge then I'm sure my senior instructor would be more than happy to help...

Awsome. Why don't you send me the plane ticket right away? That way I can come on over and see what is it you do. I mean, since you want me to come so badly I think that you should pay for it. Also I'll want some cash for my time and effort. I go first class too. Deluxe accomadations. After all, I will have to leave my busy work schedule to come there.

 

[white dragon]

KIRK -

Indeed Taebo is physically and mentally tiring, but so is having to train to run a marathon. But then I don't consider either a martial art. As for your comment about the difficulty and nastyness of an attack, I could ask you the same question. How do you know that what you're studying is actually worth anything at all? It's something we can all ask ourselves. I know from personal experience (as I've said in another topic on this board) that what I've been taught works. How effective it is in every situation? I have no idea, you don't know that till you have to use it, a training drill can only teach you so much.

You say you're legitimately curious about TKD, which I respect, an open mind is a good thing. If you have any questions then please ask and I will answer them as best I can. Anyone, no matter what style that thinks they can defend themselves against any attack obviously has their head up their own **** so far they can't see any light of day at all.

To your comment about using a rear leg turning kick. It's a good kick, but as you no doubt know, you can pretty much see it coming unless you're really fast. It's got good power technically with the hip position et al. BUT I'd very rarely use it in a fight as if I can hit the guy off my back leg then I could hit him faster off my lead leg as it's closer. Personally I favour the simpiler approach of using a slip sidekick to the knee while throwing a backhand to the face. Sorry I hope I didn't supprise anyone too much by saying that we're actually taught not to only kick above the waist?!

Thanks for confirmaing you are talking about your experience in America of TKD, both Brian and myself stem from the UK so maybe it's very different over here. I hope maybe by talking to us both we can restore some faith in the art that you seem to not have. I would also just like to point out at this time that rom what I read I'm not suprised of the opinion that some of you have. But politics and high prices are not the martial art, it's BS created by bad instructors.

DUTCH -

Testing fees are £9 which includes the cost of belt and getting your certificate stamped from Korea. There are no international fees, no regional fees. You still haven't answered how much you pay for your lessons. Our instructor will only put someone forward for a grading if he thinks they can pass. Why should he grade people that aren't up to that standard? It makes HIM look bad. He has failed people and even demoted people a belt because they couldn't meet the standard he's set.

So you want me to pay for your plane tickets and you'll only take 1st class, plus you want the money back you'll miss making at work? I thought it was tkd people that only thought about money? SERISOULY though, should you find yourself in this part of the world, you're more than welcome to come and train, not because I'm acting like some kid in the playground offering you out... but maybe if you came down to a club to see how we train I can change your attitude towards tkd.

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by brianbarton



I definately second that. The class I attend is both physically and mentally difficult. Each student spends many hours learning to defend against the most difficult and nasty of attacks in the unlikely event should an attack happen.

The lack of courtesy shown in the way people disrespect other styles suggests to me that perhaps they are the students of a McDojo as any other dojo would not encourage this sort of contempt.

tell me white dragon or brian, do you guys seriously know how to guard against or block straight boxing punches, i can guarantee you dont, unless you have had boxing/kickboxing experience. most TKD exponents i know, ok all TKD exponents i know keep their hands at waist level. what good is this, very easy to inflict serious damage, especially by unclad hands on street.
i guess i try to utilize a few things when i spar a TKD guy, but especially my boxing.

 

[white dragon]

I personally have had kickboxing experience, and maybe that has helped me to know just how getting a blow to the head ISN'T a good thing. I see in another post you mention this yourself

Also as for the dropping the hands bit, you've seen my view on this at: www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=10435#post10435