OP
RyuShiKan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #21
Judo-Kid,
Who are you talking about?
Who are you talking about?
- Status
Aegis
Purple Belt
No. It doesn't.
Is a professional boxer a master of karate if he goes into karate dojos and beats the instructors in sparring? Hardly.
Whoever told you this definition of mastery was most certainly not a master themselves, as they don't even begin to see the depth of the martial arts.
Well by that reasoning, vetinary studies are almost like being a doctor, I'll open up my own clinic. The more you study these arts, the more differences you find.
*btw: no, I'm not studying to be a vet, just needed a quick example*
OP
Astra
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #23
Flames coming from a 16-year old. You're striving toward perfection? Fine, when you reach perfection, come back and gloat all about it. With that kind of attitude, you're probably never going to master a single art.
BTW, a someone only aged 16 is HARDLY the right person to tell someone they will not reach anywhere in their lives, when they
a) Assume and know nothing.
b) Have themselves reached nowhere in life. Still living with your mommy and daddy I see?
OP
H@pkid0ist
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #24
I personally don't believe that one can master an art like Hapkido or others like it. It is to eclectic and progressive. Even my teacher who has been a 9th dan since "83" and one or the senior ranking HKD GMs in the world feels this way. But it doesn't mean that you can not be confident and secure about your abilities. I'm just not going to fool myself. Here is a Quote from Neslon Mandele that I do believe in.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We are meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not in just some of us; it's in all of us. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
Nelson Mandela 1994
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We are meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not in just some of us; it's in all of us. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
Nelson Mandela 1994
OP
SteelShadow
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #25
In a martial art espeacily one thats always evolving the only thing a person can hope to be a master of is themselves.
And the techniques they learned in there life.Because they will never be able to completly master the art itself .As people we grow old and die the art is always evolving or exspanding there for even after we are gone it will continue to evolve.And I agree with the post no matter how good you are theres always someone better.striving to be the best you can be is a good thing.But trying to be better than everyone else is a waist of time.And even if you never fight or meet the person thats better than you dosnt mean they dont exsist it only means you were lucky.....
And the techniques they learned in there life.Because they will never be able to completly master the art itself .As people we grow old and die the art is always evolving or exspanding there for even after we are gone it will continue to evolve.And I agree with the post no matter how good you are theres always someone better.striving to be the best you can be is a good thing.But trying to be better than everyone else is a waist of time.And even if you never fight or meet the person thats better than you dosnt mean they dont exsist it only means you were lucky.....
OP
Abbax8
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #26
quote: Originally posted by Judo-kid
... The way to show your a master is to beat everyone else...
Judo-kid,
when Kano founded Judo, he stated that judo has two fundamental priciples, Best Use of Energy and Mutual Welfare and Benefit. To master judo, one would have to learn to apply these principles in all areas of their life. Beating people up has Nothing to do with it. You have great Intensity, Drive and Desire. If you choose to channel your energies towards competition that's great, and Good Luck. But Mastery? That's different. There have been judo Masters, they are very few. Mifune, Kotani, Samura, Nagaoka, Isogai and Yamashita all achieved tenth Dan and are recognized as judo masters. They got there by winnimg tournaments, AND by teaching the highest principles of JUDO. To truly call yourself a master you too will need to do both, then you will be recognized by OTHERS as a master. One does not take for oneself the title of master, rather it is given to them by others.
Peace
Dennis
... The way to show your a master is to beat everyone else...
Judo-kid,
when Kano founded Judo, he stated that judo has two fundamental priciples, Best Use of Energy and Mutual Welfare and Benefit. To master judo, one would have to learn to apply these principles in all areas of their life. Beating people up has Nothing to do with it. You have great Intensity, Drive and Desire. If you choose to channel your energies towards competition that's great, and Good Luck. But Mastery? That's different. There have been judo Masters, they are very few. Mifune, Kotani, Samura, Nagaoka, Isogai and Yamashita all achieved tenth Dan and are recognized as judo masters. They got there by winnimg tournaments, AND by teaching the highest principles of JUDO. To truly call yourself a master you too will need to do both, then you will be recognized by OTHERS as a master. One does not take for oneself the title of master, rather it is given to them by others.
Peace
Dennis
KennethKu
2nd Black Belt
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Messages
- 757
- Reaction score
- 17
Kids are encouraged to dream. Please don't tell them they can't. May be he will extract all the better part of each art and create his own system. Who knows? You got to be able to dream in order to create something out of impossibilities.
So the kid has a big mouth and somewhat of an attitude. Which 16 yrs old is not some what that way?
Heck, they all learn, eventually. The same way we did!
Go ahead and chase your dream, Judo Kid. God Speed! Best of luck to you! You have a whole life in front of you. If only I could be 16 again......
So the kid has a big mouth and somewhat of an attitude. Which 16 yrs old is not some what that way?
Heck, they all learn, eventually. The same way we did! Go ahead and chase your dream, Judo Kid. God Speed! Best of luck to you! You have a whole life in front of you. If only I could be 16 again......
Well said. If the Judo-kid had actually read my post he might have seen that I was being supportive. We were all there once.
OP
Master of Blades
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #29
Back on topic, if I can master Kali I would be a happy bunny....and then I would probably move onto Wing Chun and try and master that, I doubt I will be able to do either....but I would love it to happen.
Back off topic, Age has nothing to do with it. Most people here know or should know if they BOTHERED to read my posts that I am the tender young age of 15. I dont get the same replys as you do though. I thought about it and I kinda figured that it isnt anything to do with age but how you put your dreams and ideals across. But I do also think people need to cut you some slack and let you try and accomplish whatever you think you can. I used to think the same kinda thing but all I wanted to Master was BJJ Kali and Wing Chun. My dad shattered that saying that I would rather you mastered just Kali and not all three so that when you go into a fight or tournament or whatever your not alright in three areas against a person who is fantastic in one. Cuz you will most likley lose. Took me two years and many lost spars to realise he was right but it happened.
Still it is nice to know that someone regards their own self esteem highly enough to achieve that lol
Back off topic, Age has nothing to do with it. Most people here know or should know if they BOTHERED to read my posts that I am the tender young age of 15. I dont get the same replys as you do though. I thought about it and I kinda figured that it isnt anything to do with age but how you put your dreams and ideals across. But I do also think people need to cut you some slack and let you try and accomplish whatever you think you can. I used to think the same kinda thing but all I wanted to Master was BJJ Kali and Wing Chun. My dad shattered that saying that I would rather you mastered just Kali and not all three so that when you go into a fight or tournament or whatever your not alright in three areas against a person who is fantastic in one. Cuz you will most likley lose. Took me two years and many lost spars to realise he was right but it happened.
Still it is nice to know that someone regards their own self esteem highly enough to achieve that lol
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
I agree with everyone here. "Mastering" an art is a totally different thing than "beating people up". Judo-kid, no offense, but I don't think you have the true meaning of MA. If you like the sport end of it, so be it. Go for it. There's nothing wrong with dreams and goals. But there is more to martial arts than just the "physical" side. MA's are 10% physical, 90% mental. Except the sport ones, but you still have to be disiplined and train mentally in some way. To "master" all those arts is crazy. It takes a life-time to "master" just one art.
OP
fissure
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #31
Hey bart, you'll get used to Judo- kid after a while.
Judo- kid, the reason people get on you is because you think that MA is simply about beating the crap out of other people. You figure that if you can choke out your Judo or Wrestling coach then you have "mastered" that discipline. If some other guy comes along and whips you have you now lost that mastery?
It seems to me that you don't care anything about the MA, what you care about is simply fighting -- and there is nothing wrong with that.
What you seem to want to master are the individual "fighting movements" of certain arts. Just keep in mind that learning how to punch, kick, throw and such doesn't mean you now understand that MA.Thats why some people get pissed off when you mention mastering half a dozen MAs, when they have have spent a couple decades on one and are still not ready to close the book.
Judo- kid, the reason people get on you is because you think that MA is simply about beating the crap out of other people. You figure that if you can choke out your Judo or Wrestling coach then you have "mastered" that discipline. If some other guy comes along and whips you have you now lost that mastery?
It seems to me that you don't care anything about the MA, what you care about is simply fighting -- and there is nothing wrong with that.
What you seem to want to master are the individual "fighting movements" of certain arts. Just keep in mind that learning how to punch, kick, throw and such doesn't mean you now understand that MA.Thats why some people get pissed off when you mention mastering half a dozen MAs, when they have have spent a couple decades on one and are still not ready to close the book.
That is one of the best posts I've read in a while. :asian:
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #33
Chase your dreams Judo Kid!
Judo-kid,
My laughter had nothing at all to do with your age. It had to do with anyone talking about mastering anything. Not matter what it is...martial arts, writing, basket weaving...there's never an end-point. You don't just one day wake up and say, "Wow...I'm done with Sambo, what's next?"
No one truly masters anything in my opinion. We can look to those who have gone and done long before us....and to us they are masters. But to themselves...are they?
My laughter had nothing at all to do with your age. It had to do with anyone talking about mastering anything. Not matter what it is...martial arts, writing, basket weaving...there's never an end-point. You don't just one day wake up and say, "Wow...I'm done with Sambo, what's next?"
No one truly masters anything in my opinion. We can look to those who have gone and done long before us....and to us they are masters. But to themselves...are they?
This does not make someone a master.
By the "lol" I hope you are kidding. This is an important function of any martial arts master. Someone who is a master can cause great harm with their techniques whether in teaching or challenges. Healing came about to repair the damage done. It can be as simple as knowing some basic first aid to the more advanced ki/chi healing.
Spiderman said it best, with great power comes great responsibility.
To truly be a master the point is not to harm, it is to help and heal.
And what will this prove? That in an octagon with set rules, on one night, you beat someone else? Fantastic, what happens if you leave the arena and are jumped by a couple guys who take your money, your UFC belt and your car because you were busy gloating and not aware of your surroundings? And I already know your response "this would never happen to the greatest UFC fighter in history" but remember, there is still no great technique for stopping bullets.
If you do go into the UFC and have success, this will not "aww" the masses who respond to your posts and fall into your flame war traps. We know you want to go into the UFC and want to be successful. I want a million dollars and all the wanting in the world will not bring it.
If you want to awe martial talk come back in 3-4 years and say:
"Martial Talk, 3-4 years of hard training out on my own really showed me how difficult training, a full time job, bills and life are to balance. That it's hard to seek out the people who can teach me the techniques that I need to learn and that the advanced tecniques in (insert any style) are to learn. I learned the basics quickly but the subtlety's in the styles really reveal how different the styles are and although I would still like to master many styles, it's going to take me a lifetime"
That would awe me and many others. Good luck Judo-kid: Have goals and try to fulfill them.
When I started off at 14 I believed all sorts of mystical stuff about the arts. I'm glad a forum like this exists to help educate people to be more realistic but that takes time! One's dreams and goals will become more realistic as one learns more about the arts--it's a natural, iterative process.
Using the other person's age as an argumentation device is a sign of defeat, in my opinion. I grant that youthful enthusiasm may be at work here though it's more likely time in the arts (and the nature of those arts) than age per se that matters here. Still, I am a scientist and we have a saying in the sciences: Anyone who can't explain what they do to an 11 year old is a fraud. Is it different in the martial arts?
Using the other person's age as an argumentation device is a sign of defeat, in my opinion. I grant that youthful enthusiasm may be at work here though it's more likely time in the arts (and the nature of those arts) than age per se that matters here. Still, I am a scientist and we have a saying in the sciences: Anyone who can't explain what they do to an 11 year old is a fraud. Is it different in the martial arts?
I believe it is possible to master -an- art. To know all that is know about it, and take it further.
Those individuals are very rare. People will mention Bruce Lee, Yip Man, Ed Parker, Remy Presas, Wally Jay, to name a few. I don't believe any of them considered themselves the 'master'. Humility prevented that.
For someone in their teens to say "I will master" is a very noble goal. Time will reveal the truth. Who are we to say?
JK may just become a master of the arts. He may also find enlightenment along the way, and see the true meaning behind the arts. He may understand the truth behind Bruce Lees words, that so many have missed.
He may also fall into the same trap so many of us have. A girlfriend, then a wife, then a family. That 40 hr job we all hate. Lawn care and vehicle maintainence, plus family obligations. How much time for training now? Let us now forget the injuries sustained when young, now slowly come back to haunt us in our growing years. The mind, is not as sharp as once it was, the body, not a limber nor quick to move.
Can he, or any of us do it? All things are possible. They are just not probable. Does he have 'it'? I can't say. His posts are full of the "bravado of youth". Ours the 'well of experience'.
Judo, you have stated you wish to be the best of the best, a master among masters. You have said this when you are but a few steps into the thousand step journey. We all wish you luck. Time will reveal to us if you have completed the never ending journey.
:asian:
Those individuals are very rare. People will mention Bruce Lee, Yip Man, Ed Parker, Remy Presas, Wally Jay, to name a few. I don't believe any of them considered themselves the 'master'. Humility prevented that.
For someone in their teens to say "I will master" is a very noble goal. Time will reveal the truth. Who are we to say?
JK may just become a master of the arts. He may also find enlightenment along the way, and see the true meaning behind the arts. He may understand the truth behind Bruce Lees words, that so many have missed.
He may also fall into the same trap so many of us have. A girlfriend, then a wife, then a family. That 40 hr job we all hate. Lawn care and vehicle maintainence, plus family obligations. How much time for training now? Let us now forget the injuries sustained when young, now slowly come back to haunt us in our growing years. The mind, is not as sharp as once it was, the body, not a limber nor quick to move.
Can he, or any of us do it? All things are possible. They are just not probable. Does he have 'it'? I can't say. His posts are full of the "bravado of youth". Ours the 'well of experience'.
Judo, you have stated you wish to be the best of the best, a master among masters. You have said this when you are but a few steps into the thousand step journey. We all wish you luck. Time will reveal to us if you have completed the never ending journey.
:asian:
First of Judo-Kid et al,
I did not know about an age when I made my comments. Second, I care not for age of the poster if they are coherent and I can understand them. Now for mastering multiple Arts go for it. When you accomplish it come back and let us all know. I would enjoy the conversation at that time. Be it tomorrow or in a life time. As for dreaming you can do it, I support your cause. Just remember, they teach you things in school so you can learn them to avoid the long trails of failure that others have gone before you.
As for My Post, I do not get up at the same time everyday, and I meant mastering Getting up and waking up. As for eating a good balanced meal, I meant that also, for I do not always do that.
. As for enjoying Life to its' fullest I also meant that. I wish to enjoy what I do and how I do it.As for you, I wish you the best in your mastery. I will make a comment if you look at Eskrima as weapon or stick art only, then you are not seeing the whole thing. As you learn more, more doors will open and you will see that it is not the same view you had before. This does not mean you could not do what you say, only that others that have traveled your desired path have seen it otherwise. The one who have gone before you. So do not throw away their comments.
Train Well
Rich
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #39
That's all I'm saying. He has a little while left before he has to
go out "into the real world". And having such a huge goal that
we all feel is unacheivable, if pursued, can yeild positive results.
It's important to have a passion in life, a dream, a goal. A heavy
drive in acheiving it can't be harmful.
I agree.
Wise man once say to me "Don't let anybody steal your dream".
Wise man make aver 1 Billion american dollars each year from his dream.
He start out soda pop delivery man... now have more soda pop than even Micro$oft can drink.
He did it despite all those who said he couldn't succede. That he wasnt smart enough, or strong enough, or popular enough.
If that is your dream, then go for it. In the end, you determine your final destination. Your attitude is directly related to your altitude. Train hard and train smart.
I'll add my 2 cents here...
what arts do I wish to master?
Wing Chun.
Sword Arts.
What do I have against me? Lack of quality instructiors within my reach, Age, and injury. Then again, Col. Sanders started KFC when he was in his late 70's and dead broke. So, who says age is a problem.
Good luck. :asian:
- Status
