Terminology and an annoying friend

[SageGhost83]

I have a conundrum. Wasn't Ninja a generic word for anyone who uses stealth or is sneaky? Wouldn't a common thief or burglar technically be a "ninja" too? I was thinking that Shinobi no mono was the name for the particular group of shadow warriors in feudal Japan while Ninja was a term that is used more generally for anyone being sneaky. If this is truly the case then wouldn't "Nin + Jutsu" be a generic way of identifying any method done for the purpose of sneaking in or used by "one who sneaks in"? Then we would have ShinobiJutsu to identify what the Iga and Koga clans did in that feild to identify their own specific methods, while Ninjutsu would be something more general done by commoners as opposed to the actual methods of the clans themselves.

Ninja = one who sneaks in; generic, could be used to identify a common thief or burglar
Shinobi no mono = a member of a specific clan and tradition in the Iga and Koga regions of feudal Japan

Ninjutsu = general methods used by a Ninja
Shinobijutsu = specific methods used by a Shinobi no mono

I ask because I got into a really heated debate about ninjutsu with a buddy of mine and he argued that technically anybody who teaches anything about stealth or being sneaky or stuff like that is teaching their own version of Ninjutsu by the very definition of the word. Help me out here, I hate losing debates :rpo:!

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I have a conundrum. Wasn't Ninja a generic word for anyone who uses stealth or is sneaky?

No.

Wouldn't a common thief or burglar technically be a "ninja" too?

No.

If this is truly the case then wouldn't "Nin + Jutsu" be a generic way of identifying any method done for the purpose of sneaking in or used by "one who sneaks in"?

No.

Then we would have ShinobiJutsu to identify what the Iga and Koga clans did in that feild to identify their own specific methods, while Ninjutsu would be something more general done by commoners as opposed to the actual methods of the clans themselves.

No.

I ask because I got into a really heated debate about ninjutsu with a buddy of mine and he argued that technically anybody who teaches anything about stealth or being sneaky or stuff like that is teaching their own version of Ninjutsu by the very definition of the word.

If a ninja drives a car, is that ninjutsu? Don't think so. BTW, does your friend speak Japanese? If not, why are you having that discussion with him?

 

[terryl965]

Sageghost83 the only proper way of settling this would be to fight :btg:it out under control circumstances. I will be the judge and the loser buys the beers.:cheers:

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Dorobou=Burglar.

Sneak=Kosokoso would be used for Burglar

Stealth=Hesoka would be for a Ninja or Army.

Hope that helps.

 

[SageGhost83]

Thanks a bunch, guys! I knew that I wasn't crazy. I am going to print out your responses and give them to him (except for yours, Terry :lfao. Bandit, he is a karateka who thinks he knows everything and we just happened to get on the subject of martial arts while chatting. Of course, he being a budo snob, decided to start bagging on the fact that I study Taijutsu as well as TKD, and he says "anybody can be a ninja, heck I was a ninja last night when I snuck into the kitchen and ate my wife's strawberry sherbert without her ever finding out it was me." Then he goes into this whole diatribe about what Ninjas are and where they come from - none of it even remotely accurate. Ordinarily, I would write someone like that right off and not pay any attention to them, but he is one of those types who won't leave it alone until you shut him up. I tried telling him that "Ninja" carries a specific meaning and it is not a general term like Hollywood would have him believe. Then I told him if that is the case then the garbage man is a Ninja. It was a shot at sarcasm, but he just turned it around and used it to add to his own argument. I am trying to steer him in the direction of Hatsumi and Hayes in the local book store to show him that we are not just a bunch of Naruto fanboys, as he claims . He is a good guy, but you know how arrogant some of our Karate brethren can get at times...I figured that some input from the resident shinobi at MT as further proof that I know what I am talking about would help silence him when he finds out that some of the most knowledgeable people on the subject find his gross generalizations just as absurd as I do and that he is being a dolt.

 

[SageGhost83]

Sageghost83 the only proper way of settling this would be to fight :btg:it out under control circumstances. I will be the judge and the loser buys the beers.:cheers:

I wouldn't mind scrapping with him, right now. He still owes me from the last sparring match, so after I defeat him again, he will owe me even more drinks :lol2:.