Taking the back on the street

[Andrew Green]

Yes, it is still a great position.

You got some potentially fight ending throws available, you can strikem he can't. You have some standing submissions if the guy is untrained. If you can pin him into a wall you got even more control.

It does take practice to be able to hold though, without that guys will just turn into you as soon as you try and strike. But being behind someone in a fight is almost always to your advantage and leaves them very few viable options.

 

[Jimi]

Hey Brian, I like the kidney shot, it can cause the back to arch and the chin to rise some,offering the throat to a strike or choke. I like it, I like it. Hey Tradrockrat, like I haven't been called trash before growing up behind TIC TOC Liquors in Langley Park. TIC TOC you don't need a clock to know what time it is! LOL. BTW Tradrockrat, the Python ain't nothin' but the Boa Constrictor, LOL! PEACE

 

[Adept]

The rear naked choke you describe is a great option. My only problem with it though is that it takes a while to work and leaves you exposed to attacks from behind.

Depends on how well you sink it in. In my experience, if you put it on properly and crank it on hard, they will be unconscious in perhaps four seconds.

I like the idea of being able to pick someone up from this position and throw them -- without going to the ground with them. But what are the chances that you wouldn't end up on the ground with them?

Depends on how big you are, and how big they are. I'm a reasonably stocky guy, and not too tall (5'10" 220lbs) so I feel comfortable heaving around a tall skinny guy. Against someone approaching my own size or bigger, it's not an option.

Perhaps throwing them into a wall, car, etc. (like what MJS - Mike indicated) would be a better solution (if available), as it doesn't require the same amount of full body commitment on your part.

Mike I also like your idea of a standing arm triangle -- it's very effective -- especially when your left arm can rest on your opponent's eyes. But sometimes muscle memory kicks in and I've already scooted around back of my opponent, so I'm more interested in a decisive move from this position.



Brian R. VanCise also said basically the same thing and was equally vague. I would love to hear more about the plethora of targets?

The difficulty I've found with training for targeting sensitive areas from the back, is that you have to give up the control position (i.e. tight grip around your opponent) to give yourself enough distance for the strikes to be effective. That's why destroying the base, rear-naked choke, shoulder pull, head crank, throw into wall, etc. seem to me to be the way to go. Otherwise, if you release your opponent to give yourself space, won't he immediately start spinning around to face you -- rendering your shots less effective?[/quote]

 

[MJS]

Mike I also like your idea of a standing arm triangle -- it's very effective -- especially when your left arm can rest on your opponent's eyes. But sometimes muscle memory kicks in and I've already scooted around back of my opponent, so I'm more interested in a decisive move from this position.

Yes, chances are, we're going to be reacting to whats presented to us at the moment. That being said, I think that everyone here has provided a large amount of info. to work with.

Great suggestions everyone!!:ultracool

Mike

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sometimes you do not have to give up total control to strike.
Take this for instance. If I am behind someone and they have
hair I could grab the back of their hair and yank backwards which'
will off balance them and leave them vulnerable for a second or two to strike. Another instance is if I am behind them I can reach around to their face and slap my hand over their face so that I can use a finger
on their nose to again bend them backwards. Once agin breaking their
balance. Another option would be to have my forearm go across their throat and the other one grabbing the opposite side bicep and pull on the arm/thoat while I push my chest into them then I could strike their knee using a stomp kick and either take them down forward or pull them back. They would be on their knees anyways and I could then strike while they are vulnerable. Just some thoughts.

 

[zDom]

I think I understand your technique, but are you facing the same direction as your adversary, or do you turn your hips in and thrust in a backward direction? I'm going to have to try this one out (very carefully) with some training partners and then report back to you.

Still facing same direction, so thrusting forward with hips.

The way we train it actually starts from in front, facing them, then we transition to behind them, left arm holding their right arm behind their back, our right arm around their neck.

As there really isn't a way to safely practice the full technique full speed, we usually just launch them as high as we can and then let them drop back to their feet.

In the "real" version, by stepping back, means they land (hard!) on their butt or back.

Please be careful with this if you play around with it. I really wish I could get a video clip to show you how we safely practice it.

 

[trevorama]

Wow guys, some awesome responses! I really think I have a good feel for what would be effective from this position now. Thank you all for your posts.

Some random comments...

Oh boy I hate to be considered vague,
[snip...]
What about a rear double leg takedown or a single leg takedown using forearm or shoulder.
[snip...]
Bottom line if you can break their balance you can then do multple things like control, takedown, strike. Lots of options if you do it right!
[snip...]
I hope this is a little less vague and a little more helpful.

Definitely -- thank you! Breaking the balance is obviously key, then you have your pick of targets, especially if you still have control with one arm.

I'm very intrigued by the thought of a double leg or single leg takedown from behind. I think that's brilliant! For some reason that never occurred to me. I'm definitely going to practice some variations on that theme.

If you can pin him into a wall you got even more control.

Another great addition -- use a wall, not just as a target to throw your opponent into, but as a device to help corner and control them!

[Re: Rear-Naked Choke]
Depends on how well you sink it in. In my experience, if you put it on properly and crank it on hard, they will be unconscious in perhaps four seconds.

You're right. And it's a great control technique to arch your opponent back, bring them to the ground etc.

Another instance is if I am behind them I can reach around to their face and slap my hand over their face so that I can use a fingeron their nose to again bend them backwards. Once agin breaking their balance.

OKay, now you're just copying me!

Still facing same direction, so thrusting forward with hips.

The way we train it actually starts from in front, facing them, then we transition to behind them, left arm holding their right arm behind their back, our right arm around their neck.

As there really isn't a way to safely practice the full technique full speed, we usually just launch them as high as we can and then let them drop back to their feet.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm looking forward to practising this one (safely -- don't worry).

 

[tradrockrat]

This one sounds pretty effective (and similar to tradrockrat's nice move above). I think I understand your technique, but are you facing the same direction as your adversary, or do you turn your hips in and thrust in a backward direction? I'm going to have to try this one out (very carefully) with some training partners and then report back to you.

Practice by going under the arm and going to the ground with your partner first - until you've got the hang of the check / lift - it's much safer to your training partner

1. Dodge / slip right cross by steppping forward to the left with left foot. you are now on a line with your opponent - actually to his side, not back.
2. Step into and across the back of your opponent with right foot. This should put you in a great position to hip check.
3. Simultaneously with the step, shoot the right hand under the arm (or over to kill the poor sod) across the chin (should be a strong blow across the point of the chin to move the head)
4. Wrap the right arm around the head and lock it in by grabbing your left arm with your right hand while pivoting through the hip check and transfer your weight to the left foot - this should lift your opponent off the ground and throw him if you allow your weight to sink during the shift.
5. go down to the ground with him as he falls and triangle your legs (spread them out) for better control and leverage.
6. Tighten the choke and tuck your head into your opponents head for a three point choke which isolates the right arm as well.

Important note - because you've isolated the arm inside the choke, it allows some wiggle room that a strong assailant can eventually escape if it's not perfect - which is why its simply a restraining move that you don't want to do if it's just you and you're unsure of the environment (does he have friends??? Are you good on the ground if he gets out???)

If you go above the arm, stay standing and skip steps 5 and 6

I don't usually think it's a good idea to "teach" over the internet. Please don't make me regret it - be safe.

BTW Tradrockrat, the Python ain't nothin' but the Boa Constrictor, LOL! PEACE

Tell that to Doc... :0

 

[IWishToLearn]

Haven't heard this point of view mentioned yet - so let me be the one who throws the oil in teh water . How many times on the street is it a true one-on-one encounter? Where I come from (Rancho Cucamonga, CA and now Salinas, CA) it's almost always a one on one STARTING situation...until the dude who starts getting the short end of things' buddies realize they better jump in. Unless of course you happen to absolutely decimate the poor sap, that tends to make his buddies slightly more discretionary - or they just pull the guns out. I hate going to the ground (granted I haven't been in a street altercation since high school - that's actually why I started training) for that reason - you never know when his friends might jump in. I'd hate to be on the ground as a target of opportunity for multiple foot attacks hehe. *Foot hits head, head hits pavement. Ew.*

 

[IWishToLearn]

I did however see one multi person fight where one of the attackers pulled a taser and things were going great until one of his buddies got thrown AT him...his reflex was to put his hands out to catch his buddy - and he completely forgot he had the taser in his hand until he zapped his friend. *Kerplunk* - cue stunned look - cue target of opportunity - cue incoming right hand he never saw - cue taser clattering out of his hand as he hit da ground. That one was funny.

 

[searcher]

Haven't heard this point of view mentioned yet - so let me be the one who throws the oil in teh water . How many times on the street is it a true one-on-one encounter? Where I come from (Rancho Cucamonga, CA and now Salinas, CA) it's almost always a one on one STARTING situation...until the dude who starts getting the short end of things' buddies realize they better jump in. Unless of course you happen to absolutely decimate the poor sap, that tends to make his buddies slightly more discretionary - or they just pull the guns out. I hate going to the ground (granted I haven't been in a street altercation since high school - that's actually why I started training) for that reason - you never know when his friends might jump in. I'd hate to be on the ground as a target of opportunity for multiple foot attacks hehe. *Foot hits head, head hits pavement. Ew.*

The point you bring up on the one to one is true alot of the time. If it is multiples I back into a corner or a flat wall to cover my own back. Most MAists don't care for this approach since it leave no escape route, but it is better than getting blind-sided. If you assume that it is going to be a one on one then you are living in a dreamworld.

Multiples is the reasoning behind my use of "nastier" techniques and higher levels of brutality. But that is another thread for another day.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Multiples is the reasoning behind my use of "nastier" techniques and higher levels of brutality. But that is another thread for another day.

Aww