Taekwondo class structure

[falcon]

So retainage is a BIG issue. This speaks loudly to the program, material being taught, and most importantly HOW it is being taught. Even the best of marketing systems do not keep people is a program/school they do not enjoy and desire to be at.
From what you described, not a lot of Martial Arts are being taught and instead it is largely an organized exercise program.
One of the best things our GM says is that he gives us all the information necessary to adeptly learn everything in class. It is the responsibility of the student to receive the information and learn it. Just like we do in grade school or upper level education. And just like the results if someone repeatedly fails exams in school the same expectation must be there in the Dojang. It doesn't have to be an overt display. Better that a mood or tone is set and embraced by everyone, including the teacher(s). It sounds like this may be a challenge for you, possibly given your age and rank, but you need to make it a primary goal to engage with adults and learn what causes them to leave the program.
FWIW, the 6 week deal you offer only works if most people hang around for 8-12 months. Of course that is still not ideal either.

what makes you say i dont teach martial arts in my class cause that all i teach in the classes, and has of right now the adults that i have sign up quit cause there son wanted to do bjj, one said it was to hard, and cause of family emergency issues it things like that, i have had very few adults even sign up.

 

[Earl Weiss]

how long would you say it takes for a student to get that down cause if i am constantly telling my students they will go into an okay stance but it still needs work.

Recently considered this issue because I have a 15 year old who achieved BB after about 10 years and it seemed like there were several years of nagging her about fixing stuff and now people will look at her and comment on how good the technique is technically. As I said I nagged her for years and she had the advantage of being smart enough to grasp every detail and the range of motion physicality came easy. Still I hammered her for years. So, the other day I asked her what made the difference? I was looking for the "Secret Sauce " to use on other young students. What finally made the change? She aid - nagging me for years - so much for hoping for the secret sauce.

 

[Earl Weiss]

some issues are stances arent deep enough, flopping of the body well kicking, looking away from the target well kicking, no power when doing forms. those are a few problems i thought of really quick some are having them just cause they are new and it will be corrected over time but others just don't seem to get it.

I think you have to differentiate between issues that are mental, physical and mechanical. Mental - They just don't get it. Again use the 3 types of teaching and try different explanations. Physical - The body can't do it (perhaps this will improve in time with maturation) Try small incremental improvements. Mechanical - The elements are not correct. For this - teach the elements in all 3 ways if needed. Use marks on floor if need be. After teaching each element ask the to explain like "How wide should your stance be - Show me. " If they canTell you and do it after you teach then it is a paying attention or proprioception issue. First tell them how to correct - for example "Longer". Next level Tell them to look at their stance. Next level - Tell them to fix their stance. If I repeat the same thing often I tell them OK next time and each time after I will charge you 5 cents. Then I start saying each time you owe me 5 cents, 10 cents etc.. -

 

[dvcochran]

what makes you say i dont teach martial arts in my class cause that all i teach in the classes, and has of right now the adults that i have sign up quit cause there son wanted to do bjj, one said it was to hard, and cause of family emergency issues it things like that, i have had very few adults even sign up.

I am i 2nd degree recommended black belt, 23
for the class we bow in then we do warmups we usely do either ladder drills, excersizes (pushups, situps, squats), side shuffle, jogging, grape vine up and down the floor, on days we go up and down the floor we will do kicks across the floor or stance work across the floor. After that we we will kick the bags, shields, or paddles i usely try to keep them doing the same kind of kick like different side kicks, different round kicks and things like that. After that we might do forms depending on the day. i know the way i run class needs improvement and its something i am in the process of changing, and thats also why im asking for help.
we dont do a month to month contract. we have a sign up offer for 6 weeks for $49 and you get a free uniform. we dont have a black belt program cause we only have a few blackbelts at my school and they are all my family that i got my black belt with.
i advertise on facebook mostly

I am not trying to offend. You asked for help so I am offering my advise and experience.
Are you a WT/Kukki school? If so, as I have said often before, there are inherent flaws in the model for doing it long term. You stated you do not do forms every class and did not mention sparring or self defense/one steps at all. r
So is your primarily focus on teaching for WT style sparring skills? Do you mostly do dynamic warmups and kicking drills?

 

[falcon]

I am not trying to offend. You asked for help so I am offering my advise and experience.
Are you a WT/Kukki school? If so, as I have said often before, there are inherent flaws in the model for doing it long term. You stated you do not do forms every class and did not mention sparring or self defense/one steps at all. r
So is your primarily focus on teaching for WT style sparring skills? Do you mostly do dynamic warm ups and kicking drills?

i do sparring and self defense in the classes, one step drills, i just laid out the average class cause they arent done as much. what would you recomend i do every class or another way of putting it what is your average class look like?

 

[Buka]

Falcon, how long have you been training? And were you "taught how to teach" by your instructors, or were you just thrown to the wolves like so many of us were?

 

[falcon]

Falcon, how long have you been training? And were you "taught how to teach" by your instructors, or were you just thrown to the wolves like so many of us were?

i have been training for about 8 years, i was not taught how to teach i decided i wanted a school so i am trying to figure it all out, which is why im asking for some help here.

 

[dvcochran]

i do sparring and self defense in the classes, one step drills, i just laid out the average class cause they arent done as much. what would you recomend i do every class or another way of putting it what is your average class look like?

Our classes are 1 hour and 30-40 minutes. Generally, the first 20 minutes are stretching, dynamic first, static second. Then we will do floor drills and pad work. We usually concentrate on forms or one-steps, doing one or the other heavily for 6-8 weeks at a time. The last 30 minutes of each class is a combination of light to heavy sparring.
We do not segregate classes so you never know what the age/rank dynamic will be. This can dictate the makeup of a class.

 

[dvcochran]

i have been training for about 8 years, i was not taught how to teach i decided i wanted a school so i am trying to figure it all out, which is why im asking for some help here.

That is a tough road to sled. I sincerely hope you figure it out. The Martial Arts as a whole need as many quality schools out there as possible.
You are young and I applaud your willingness to open a Dojang from what sounds like scratch. You are admittedly untrained. Do you think you would benefit from a business leadership type class? Some of them are pretty cheesy but there are many very good foundational ideas and practices to be learned from a good leadership class.
Make a list of all the pros and cons you currently have. Look at it from every perspective you can dream of and ask as many people in your circle that you can for input. Then weigh each one; figure out the ones that are most important or impacting (the good and the bad)and which ones can go to the back burner for a while. Write down an honest reason for each (good and bad)and a rough draft idea of how they can be resolved. NEVER look at the whole list as something you have to fix all at the same time. That will overwhelm anyone and be very discouraging. Pick what is most pressing, this is likely NOT the one you want to fix first. Look at the list and see if any other items are dependent and are either a hinderance to the highest priority or can be resolved at the same time.
In short make a plan, stick to the plan.

Have you ever written out a course curriculum for your school? This is very, very helpful you both you and your students.

Do you still have a connection to your previous instructor/system? If so, there should be resources there to pull from.

 

[Buka]

i have been training for about 8 years, i was not taught how to teach i decided i wanted a school so i am trying to figure it all out, which is why im asking for some help here.

I know, brother, just trying to figure out the best way to help you.

The first year or two in a new dojo can be trying. Hang in there.

 

[jobo]

i have been training for about 8 years, i was not taught how to teach i decided i wanted a school so i am trying to figure it all out, which is why im asking for some help he re.

hmm, the easy answer is get better students, various sports academies would just tell them they are hopeless and send them on their way.

if your being altruistic, then you need to look at added benefit of your class, rather than expect them to ever be any good . you could perhaps start by dropping the focus on ma, and analyse what basic physical abilities they are lacking and then do exercises to build balance, co ordination concentration or what ever, but what ever you do make it fun and dont spend all your time correcting them, they will just switch off, which may be the issue with the student you mentioned then when they have addition skills, tie that back to ma. they will at least get life long value out of your gym class, even if they can never manage a kata

 

[dvcochran]

hmm, the easy answer is get better students, various sports academies would just tell them they are hopeless and send them on their way.

if your being altruistic, then you need to look at added benefit of your class, rather than expect them to ever be any good .

100% Disagree!!
This goes against every aspect of the Do that all MA emphasize. I Never give up an anyone. They can find their best with help. My best, your best, and their best will always be different. Even the most physically or mentally challenged can work within the confines of any program. That is the challenge for the instructor. Some can meet this challenge, some simply cannot.

analyse what basic physical abilities they are lacking and then do exercises to build balance, co ordination concentration or what ever, but what ever you do make it fun and dont spend all your time correcting them, they will just switch off, which may be the issue with the student you mentioned then when they have addition skills, tie that back to ma. they will at least get life long value out of your gym class, even if they can never manage a kata

100% Agree!! That should be a fundamental component of every class.

 

[jobo]

100% Disagree!!
This goes against every aspect of the Do that all MA emphasize. I Never give up an anyone. They can find their best with help. My best, your best, and their best will always be different. Even the most physically or mentally challenged can work within the confines of any program. That is the challenge for the instructor. Some can meet this challenge, some simply cannot.


100% Agree!! That should be a fundamental component of every class.

what are you disagreeing with ,? that a soccer academy will dispense with all but the most gifted of students very quickly, or that he needs to fully engage his students in the activities and be conscious of their limitation and yes to drop his expectations ot not so gifted students and look to add benifit to their abilities rather than obsessing over meaningless nonsense like kata and stances.

they will grow in to well rounded adults with out ever mastering either, so are of no real value beyond norrowassessment criteria.

 

[Headhunter]

I am i 2nd degree recommended black belt, 23
for the class we bow in then we do warmups we usely do either ladder drills, excersizes (pushups, situps, squats), side shuffle, jogging, grape vine up and down the floor, on days we go up and down the floor we will do kicks across the floor or stance work across the floor. After that we we will kick the bags, shields, or paddles i usely try to keep them doing the same kind of kick like different side kicks, different round kicks and things like that. After that we might do forms depending on the day. i know the way i run class needs improvement and its something i am in the process of changing, and thats also why im asking for help.
we dont do a month to month contract. we have a sign up offer for 6 weeks for $49 and you get a free uniform. we dont have a black belt program cause we only have a few blackbelts at my school and they are all my family that i got my black belt with.
i advertise on facebook mostly

Since your teaching mainly kids you need to make the classes more fun. Frankly most kids don't want to be in martial arts, but they start because mummy and daddy make them go there to give them a break for an hour or so. They don't care about how good their stances are mostly. Yeah of course there'll be some who do but the majority couldn't care less. You need to play games with them. Make them martial art specific if you can if not just give them something that lets them run around and burn off energy.

Doing stance work up and down the hall? Tbh that's going to bore kids these days to death. Get them running around with their hands uo and having to dodge soft stuff thrown at them, get them doing tug of war with an old belt to work on stability in stances.

Maybe back in the 70s and 80s the up and down the class stuff was fine but these days kids don't want that. It's boring to them but also don't make it a boot camp. Don't be making them do 20 press ups because most kids can't even do 5. Don't be all sergeant major on them. Be relaxed have a laugh, make fun of yourself a bit have them hit you and pretend to fall over. That stuff that engages with kids,

Because honestly over half those kids will quit within a few years anyway. Yes you'll get some who stick at it. But when those kids get to teenage years there'll be more interested in partying meeting girls or boys dating etc or be stressed about exams that karate will be dropped quick. So don't worry about them becoming the next Bruce Lee. Just get them learning of course but let them have fun mainly. When they get to teenage years yeah then step up the intensity but for now focus on the fun

 

[dvcochran]

what are you disagreeing with ,? that a soccer academy will dispense with all but the most gifted of students very quickly, or that he needs to fully engage his students in the activities and be conscious of their limitation and yes to drop his expectations ot not so gifted students and look to add benifit to their abilities rather than obsessing over meaningless nonsense like kata and stances.

they will grow in to well rounded adults with out ever mastering either, so are of no real value beyond norrowassessment criteria.

I am disagreeing with putting the average MA dojo/dojang in the same category as a tournament/for profit sports team/academy. There are vast differences, primarily that most MA programs are more inclusive. That is a good thing. The challenge is on the program to be broad enough, and good enough to offer things that keep people of all levels interested and engaged. That is a systemic issue.

I agree, that it sounds like the OP's program has holes, but telling a struggling school to kick students out because they do not meet some arbitrary standard the First time the walk in the door is just wrong.

 

[Buka]

@Headhunter makes a great point in his post above. If kids are having fun in class....they're going to want to come to class. When other kids hear they're having fun....

 

[Headhunter]

I am disagreeing with putting the average MA dojo/dojang in the same category as a tournament/for profit sports team/academy. There are vast differences, primarily that most MA programs are more inclusive. That is a good thing. The challenge is on the program to be broad enough, and good enough to offer things that keep people of all levels interested and engaged. That is a systemic issue.

I agree, that it sounds like the OP's program has holes, but telling a struggling school to kick students out because they do not meet some arbitrary standard the First time the walk in the door is just wrong.

Yeah I mean...you're trying to establish a school and make some cash and jobos great idea is....kick out students who aren't prodigies so have less students and make less money because of it ....yeah great business plan...that's totally how you build a martial art school

 

[jobo]

o

I am disagreeing with putting the average MA dojo/dojang in the same category as a tournament/for profit sports team/academy. There are vast differences, primarily that most MA programs are more inclusive. That is a good thing. The challenge is on the program to be broad enough, and good enough to offer things that keep people of all levels interested and engaged. That is a systemic issue.

I agree, that it sounds like the OP's program has holes, but telling a struggling school to kick students out because they do not meet some arbitrary standard the First time the walk in the door is just wrong.

There was a certain amount of irony in that remark, i'm certainly not telling him to kick people out, just pointing out that if he wants high performing students he needs to be selective about getting students who can perform to a high level,

My last guitar teacher was so convinced in his abilities he was certain he would have me playing fluently in 3 months, he was wrong. rubbish in, rubbish out

 

[WaterGal]

One thing that was helpful for us was learning about a curriculum style called a rotating curriculum. This is a system that allows everyone in a class to work on the same material at the same time, so class can be more focused and organized, and people get more attention to their material.

What we did was we broke our color belt classes down into beginner, intermediate, and advanced level classes. In each level, students are all learning the same form, kicks, sparring drills, basic techniques, etc for a few months. Then we have a test. Everyone who tests and passes gets a new belt. Everyone who doesn't, they stay the same rank. Then the whole class moves on to learning another form and set of material. Once they've tested 3 times, they can move up to the next level of classes.

With this system, students might learn the material "in the wrong order" - but how much does "the order" really matter? If they learn Taegeuk 5, then 3, then 4 - they've still learned all three forms.

You can also break your monthly class schedule down into different themed weeks. Some places, for example, will alternate between "A week" and "B week", where one week they might focus on forms and self-defense techniques, and the next week they do kicks and sparring. That kind of planning helps to make sure that students will see all the different elements of your curriculum on a regular basis.

 

[falcon]

One thing that was helpful for us was learning about a curriculum style called a rotating curriculum. This is a system that allows everyone in a class to work on the same material at the same time, so class can be more focused and organized, and people get more attention to their material.

What we did was we broke our color belt classes down into beginner, intermediate, and advanced level classes. In each level, students are all learning the same form, kicks, sparring drills, basic techniques, etc for a few months. Then we have a test. Everyone who tests and passes gets a new belt. Everyone who doesn't, they stay the same rank. Then the whole class moves on to learning another form and set of material. Once they've tested 3 times, they can move up to the next level of classes.

With this system, students might learn the material "in the wrong order" - but how much does "the order" really matter? If they learn Taegeuk 5, then 3, then 4 - they've still learned all three forms.

You can also break your monthly class schedule down into different themed weeks. Some places, for example, will alternate between "A week" and "B week", where one week they might focus on forms and self-defense techniques, and the next week they do kicks and sparring. That kind of planning helps to make sure that students will see all the different elements of your curriculum on a regular basis.

i try to rotate like that to keep them interested but some times i dont cause they end up struggling a lot with something so i focus on that. but i dont have enough students to break them up right now.