Submissions on the street

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
ok its one on one you put him in a arm, wrist, leg (or choice) lock
he crys or fogiveness and swears he will nwever do it again. Tears flow and he begs for forgiveness.
Do you let him go??
will he get up and attack once there is no pressure on the once locked area?
will he now pull a knife ?

If your smart you will finish what you started, and you started to eliminate the threat until you reach cover. This might involve breaking his arm or knocking him out... and cover. Remember that Clint Eastwood movies "Heartbreak Ridge"? "Look at me, I said look at me!" ha ha I loved that movie.
Sean

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Aegis
Unless you actually crush the windpipe, chokes aren't that lethal. Once the opponent is "asleep", you still need to hold the choke on for quite a while before the opponent suffers permanent damage.

However, I would never use a choke on the street. My reasoning: a choke takes time to apply to the point where you can actually let go again. If there's more than one attacker, you've got yourself to the point where you either let go to defend against the second attacker or hold on and get hit.

With an armlock, wrist lock, neck lock, etc, you have to option of an instant break and release which should leave most opponents incapacitated, and leaves you free to deal with a second attack. Much quicker and more instantly effective than a choke.

It really depends on the position that you are in a fight. On the ground, I'd choke to put him in "panic mode" and open up a better position for me.

If I were fortunate enough to get a standing rear choke, I can easily drop him to his knees by kicking the back of his knees.

It just depends on the position and just like any real fight "submissions" used in conjuction with the rest of your arsenal will be used.

:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Yes, but when the prosecuting attourney askes you why you chose to kill rather than using a relativly harmless blood choke, and you start blathering on about taking people out of the equation, he will weigh your value of human life against the rest of your life. A Martial artist is expected to show control.
Sean

Thats right. Thats why if I need to use a knife I'm going to attept to cut and not stab. My focus is to escape not kill.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
ok its one on one you put him in a arm, wrist, leg (or choice) lock
he crys or fogiveness and swears he will nwever do it again. Tears flow and he begs for forgiveness.
Do you let him go??
will he get up and attack once there is no pressure on the once locked area?
will he now pull a knife ?

Like the post following yours, you need to finish in some way. It does not have to be fatal or even bonebreaking. A good wristlock will put you in a position to pound him real good.

Even on the mat, along with the armlock I use the wristlock because it so much more effective.

With a wristlock you can put your opponent in just about any position that you want him.

:asian:

 

[kenpo12]

You use what the situation calls for and sometimes you don't really have a choice of what technique you use. If you're not in a LEO capacity and you're not in some dumb drunk bar brawl you're probably fighting because you have to fight. In which case you use whatever will keep you and yours as safe as possible and if it's a choke, armbar or whatever you use it and use it as if it's the last technique you'll ever do.

 

[loki09789]

I don't train submissions so I don't think that a submission would be my tendency. I do practice some grappling entries and take downs that lead to breaking techniques and such but I think it really comes down to the fact that you will fight like you have trained as well as what is going to work in the moment.

I have surprised myself and training partners when something 'happened' during free form/sparring sessions. I imagine that at some point in a real fight it is possible for the same thing to happen as well.

Paul Martin

 

[hardheadjarhead]

If the situation warranted using a choke or a lock, I'd use those. If I saw a folding knife in his waist band prior to the altercation, that might change things a bit. There might be other factors...like the number of friends he has on hand...that might change my decision to use a submission hold.

Submissions are a good part of any arsenal. One acquires an "arsenal" so that he has a variety of weapons to suit the circumstances.


Regards,


Steve

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
If the situation warranted using a choke or a lock, I'd use those. If I saw a folding knife in his waist band prior to the altercation, that might change things a bit. There might be other factors...like the number of friends he has on hand...that might change my decision to use a submission hold.

Submissions are a good part of any arsenal. One acquires an "arsenal" so that he has a variety of weapons to suit the circumstances.


Regards,


Steve

I wouldn't want to have to fight against someone with a knife but folding knives are great for self defense too as long as you do practical knife training such as slashing the attackers arms and not stabbing.


:asian:

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
There might be other factors...like the number of friends he has on hand...that might change my decision to use a submission hold.

Sometimes a hold or even choke hold can work against multiple attackers using the person being choked as a shield.

7sm

 

[Black Bear]

Depends. I usually wouldn't. When you apply a sub you're adding the other person's inertia to your own, and if they can go around the guy to you (there's more than 3 ppl, for instance) I might crank the choke quick, but I'd be letting go real fast.

 

[KanoLives]

Don't get me wrong I like submissions.......however when in a fight I don't think you're lookin to tap the person out. Yea sure you could use it to control the person but I'd be lookin for something next. I think you need to end the altercation as quick as possible. So I agree with what was already said. If you're gonna go with a submission do it until something POPS or breaks. This way you leave little to chance......yea yea there's always the possibility of him comin at ya stronger......but there's also a chance I could win the lottery too.

 

[Black Bear]

That's right. If you dislocate a guy's shoulder or elbow with a nice jerk, he won't usually turn around and start hitting with you with his other hand.

 

[loki09789]

Submission holds and locks were described to me once as breaks with out the velocity.

Paul Martin

 

[Black Bear]

That's exactly correct, Mr. Prime Minister.

 

[7starmantis]

Not neccesarily, not all submissions can result in breaks, even with full velocity. I'm trying to say that there are submissions that are not breaks. Some wrist submissions or locks are not breaks.
It just depends on the break/submission.

7sm

 

[Black Bear]

I dunno, I believe that a wristlock that's nicely JERKED will break the joint. Unless, that is, Steven Seagal movies have lied to me. Say you do nikyo (aka inner wrist lock, aka chicken wing) and instead of forcing the guy to the ground, you just throttle it. Something should break.

The one thing that I would say doesn't break a joint or bone is a choke, or perhaps a sub that attacks tendons, like a grapevine.

Hey, did you notice people repeating what others already said on this same thread?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Black Bear
I dunno, I believe that a wristlock that's nicely JERKED will break the joint. Unless, that is, Steven Seagal movies have lied to me. Say you do nikyo (aka inner wrist lock, aka chicken wing) and instead of forcing the guy to the ground, you just throttle it. Something should break.

The one thing that I would say doesn't break a joint or bone is a choke, or perhaps a sub that attacks tendons, like a grapevine.

Well, it theory your right, but some wrist locks are done in a way that the two bones of the wrist (Ulna & Radius) are set against each other. In most scenarios, to break one or both of those bones from a completely dorsal point is almost impossible. Thats why alot of wrist locks can lead to other things, but a break is most likely not going to happen. Don't get me wrong, there are wrist locks that are relativly easy to increase into a break, but some are not.

7sm

 

[loki09789]

Break might not be the ultimate outcome in every case, but with velocity in the 'locking motion' I will take limb/joint disfunction if the technique rips up some muscle and tendons so he can't use that part to hold a weapon/hit/kick again.

Black Bear

I don't want to be the Prime Minister, I want to be a Princess
(a cheap paraphrasing of the little red head girl in Kindergarten Cop... PLEASE DON"T CALL ME PRINCESS!)


Paul M (Not the PM of Canada, though I play him on tv)

 

[loki09789]

Black Bear

Back on the job description thing,

I understand better now, The cousellors in my state work for the school, where the people who have your job work for the BOCES program and oversee many school districts.

Just a boring English Teacher dissecting the nuances of language use - again!
Gotcha

Paul Martin

 

[Black Bear]

Princess Paul? So We could call you, say, PP for short?