studentes of schools vs students of non schools

[suicide]

is it really that important to belong to a school or orginization when studying the martial arts :ultracool

 

[bluekey88]

In a word, yes. You don't have to belong ot facny school with all new equpiment...but you need to be hooked in with a good instuctor and a few quality training partners.

If you don't have this, then you arelikely not to get much value out of your training time. The instructor will tyeach...he/she will show you what you need tyo work on and help keep errors from creeping into what you do (and this will happen without an experienced eye watching over your shoulder). Your traning partners will allow you to put theory to practice. They will be there to push you as your skills grow.

Can you learn from a video on your own? Maybe...I just don't think you'll learn effectively.

In another part of my life, I'm a musician. Playing music is very much like doing martial arts....lots of similarities of overlap. Anyway, as a musician, I'm pretyy good...even graduated from a respected music school awhile back. I've had the priviledge to learn from some of the best.

After i graduated, I decided that I needed to do something different in m music training (I'm primarily a keybpardist)...I decided to pick up the guitar. Being poor, I did not seek out lessons. I used waht I new of music theory, msuicianship, etc to guide me...and I worked hard. For years I did this, pisking up bits and pieces here and there. For Christmas, I was given guitar lessons...I've learned more in a month or so with this teacher than I have after 15 years of working by mysslf.

Bottom line, on my own, I made progress, but it was slow...and I had to work through my own errors and misconceptions (without the knowledge to make that work easier). With a teacher, my training and progress is drmatically improved and accelerated.

The same holds true for MA in my opinion.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Nolerama]

Bluekey makes some really good points.

However, in my experience, I feel that the training group and teaching methods are much more key to learning and "getting" a MA than being part of a specific organization.

It takes a lot of courage to figure out your own weaknesses and work on them; as well as tell your buddy what kind of holes you see in his game.

Personally, I don't think that this kind of learning is for everyone. Lots of people out there take up the MAs so they can have a spiritual experience, or get discipline. Some want to feel great about attaining rank. That's fine, but not for me.

What I need is a curriculum, lots of live training, and a good time. In turn, I feel that I and my gym mates can at least hang with those around our skill level/time spent in the MAs when I visit other gyms.

 

[bluekey88]

I agree...you don't necessarily need an organization per se...you need an good, experienced teacher and some trustworthy training partners...and access to andequate place to do your thing.

 

[thetruth]

I agree...you don't necessarily need an organization per se...you need an good, experienced teacher and some trustworthy training partners...and access to andequate place to do your thing.

What he said

 

[Jade Tigress]

What he said

Seconded.

When you ask if it's important to belong to a school or organization while training, do you mean training by yourself via books and/or videos? Or is there a knowledgeable instructor who is perhaps teaching out of his garage?

The difference is important. It's not important to belong to a school or organization, it is important to have a good instructor and training partners. If you find an instructor who perhaps no longer teaches formally for whatever reason, but is willing to train you, that is ok too. But not by yourself trying to learn from books and videos.

 

[seasoned]

Bottom line, on my own, I made progress, but it was slow...and I had to work through my own errors and misconceptions (without the knowledge to make that work easier). With a teacher, my training and progress is drmatically improved and accelerated.
The same holds true for MA in my opinion.

Peace,
Erik

Ever so true. I putter around the house, plumbing, electrical, carpentry. Hey, I get the job done, but man it takes a long time. I never seem to have the right tools. J Just a little bit of insight at certain times really helps. :asian:

 

[Andy Moynihan]

is it really that important to belong to a school or orginization when studying the martial arts :ultracool

A school, yes, an organization less so.

 

[searcher]

I think this one has been answered.


Next in line please.

 

[Drac]

A school, yes, an organization less so.

A lot depends on the organization...

 

[Steve]

Learning anything on your own takes longer and requires a degree of motivation and discipline most people don't have. Consider trying to learn French on your own with no one around to speak to in French. It would be almost impossible to learn more than a cursory facility with the language and chances are you would get discouraged and quit after a relatively short time.

Now, if you were to go to France or Quebec and immerse yourself among others who are familiar with the language, you'd learn it very quickly.

Martial arts are the same.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

is it really that important to belong to a school or orginization when studying the martial arts :ultracool

What do you mean? By "non schools," do you mean:

1. self study or

2. being trained by a skilled instructor in his backyard or out of a community center or

3. a school with no organizational ties?

There is a huge difference between the self study and a non affiliated school, or a backyard dojo/community center class.

Please clarify.

Daniel

 

[geezer]

What do you mean? By "non schools," do you mean:

1. self study or

2. being trained by a skilled instructor in his backyard or out of a community center or

3. a school with no organizational ties?

There is a huge difference between the self study and a non affiliated school, or a backyard dojo/community center class.

Please clarify.

Daniel

I was just writing out the same question, when Daniel beat me to it! But at any rate, each of the above listed options has it's merits. I began by spending well over a decade in small schools that were part of established organizations. Then I left the MA for a long time. Since I've returned, I've gone over to the "garage-study" route in the two systems I studied previously. At this stage of my learning, it feels like the best approach. Incidently, one of the two garage groups is affiliated with a small, "break away" organization. The other is independent. Finally, The head instructors of each group do a lot of self-training... as you must when you've spent several decades pursuing your art to a very high level. However, I believe it would be very foolish to attempt such "self learning" without many years of experience, and advanced level training partners to "keep it real".

 

[mozzandherb]

From what I have seen belonging to an organization has made for better training compared to being independent. This is just my own experience, but when an instructor has been a part of an organization for a long time and then decides to be independent it is usually for the purpose of making more money. If that is the case then the standards of teaching the proper movements could be jeopardized. If the instructor is simply teaching to make it a business and milk it as much as the can, then it really is a shame.
Being a part of an organization is important because then you have to oblige by the rules and standards of that organization. When you are independent you can teach any way you like without knowing or even really caring about proper form, but when you are a part of an organization then I believe this is a motivating factor to teach the correct movements.

 

[jks9199]

From what I have seen belonging to an organization has made for better training compared to being independent. This is just my own experience, but when an instructor has been a part of an organization for a long time and then decides to be independent it is usually for the purpose of making more money. If that is the case then the standards of teaching the proper movements could be jeopardized. If the instructor is simply teaching to make it a business and milk it as much as the can, then it really is a shame.
Being a part of an organization is important because then you have to oblige by the rules and standards of that organization. When you are independent you can teach any way you like without knowing or even really caring about proper form, but when you are a part of an organization then I believe this is a motivating factor to teach the correct movements.

I don't doubt that instructors leave organizations so that they can pocket the money they had been sending to the organization. I think this is especially true if you define "organization" as a business grouping of schools, like the various Jhoon Rhee TKD studios. But if you define "organization" as a body to maintain standards and promote a particular style, like the Kukkiwon in TKD, then you have people splitting over more idealogical issues or training issues, I think, at least as often as people leave over fees.

 

[Eric Deveau]

As in all forum related topics there are as many ways of answering this topic as there are posters of topics, which points to the number of people doing the Martial Arts. The Martial Arts are not one size fits all, and it is for the individual to gain the knowledge they seek. With that thought in mind a "school" is a place where an individual goes to seek knowledge, understanding, and wisdom to apply such. Be it a garage, park, beach, backyard, or state of the art fitness facility if a person does not really want to learn they won't.
Take the group to the Historic National Park and in the group, some will see and find the beauty all on their own just by seeing it, some will have to have it pointed out, some will be "been here seen that", and of course some no matter what will just not see it because there are too many trees in the way.
If its there and you can learn from it please do it doesn't matter, what language, or what country, or what "pedigree", if YOU can learn from it you should.


An armbar is an armbar is an armbar.

 

[shihansmurf]

A school, yes, an organization less so.

Good point.

I think that there are several organizations that hinder a students progress and development as a martial artist, in point of fact. The longer I train, the less I find I care about belonging to organizations.

Mark

 

[Slihn]

is it really that important to belong to a school or orginization when studying the martial arts :ultracool

Hey man.Honestly you will get more if you are part of a school;even one that may not offer everything that you want.The reason for this is because you will have different experience from differnt fighter/martial artist. For example when I train , I have a verifty of people that I spar with. Some are good at punching , some clinch, others kicking. I am able to spar against people of different sizes reach advantages and disadvantages and so fourth. This really helps me out in a fight and ,I would imagine on the street as well.

We cannot forget that Martial Arts is just that "Martial" or other known as "War" arts. The "Art" ,"Study", or "Science" of fighting. The more exposure to other martial artist / fighters/ brawlers that you have the better that it will make you.

Please trust me on this . I dont speak of something that I read or simply "believe" , but because of FIGHTING experience in the ring.