Making students to sign a contract with a non-compete clause

[Kittan Bachika]

I am not going to name the parties involved or the style.

I was reading an online review about a school where are former student was trashing the school and posted the email between the student and the teacher which got nasty.
The issue was that the former student did not want to sign a contract that had a non-compete clause in it. It is a little strange because they usually require students to sign contracts before they start their first class but it what happened was that like the former student trained with the instructors and then decided to join their club. A couple of months they tell him to sign this contract. According to the former student they made all students sign the contract because they have had former students leave and open schools in their area. The former student refused because he did not want to be told what to do. Then the student wanted his deposit back because he was leaving and the teacher basically said that he was going to ruin the former student's reputation by telling everyone in their style that no should teach him or have anything to do with him. And then he told the student to stay away from his school.

It is pretty common for students to stay with a teacher for a couple of years and then branch out on their own. With or without the blessing of their teacher. Of course it is best with the blessing of the teacher. And of course that doesn't always happen. There are tons of stories of students and masters breaking away from an association and doing their own thing. But this is the first time I ever heard of requiring students sign a contract with a non compete clause. Has anyone seen this?

 

[arnisador]

I find non-compete clauses common. I don't like it but I understand why.

 

[Cyriacus]

So basically hes complaining about having to sign a clause that he can just ignore with zero consequence anyway?

 

[Stargazer]

Great post. Are these even valid in your area? Anybody with experience with these non-compete clauses?

Sounds like the student did the right thing not to sign it and walk. I think it's more common than we think that star students/teachers who leave get hassled for it. Not right, in my opinion.

 

[Cyriacus]

Great post. Are these even valid in your area? Anybody with experience with these non-compete clauses?

Sounds like the student did the right thing not to sign it and walk. I think it's more common than we think that star students/teachers who leave get hassled for it. Not right, in my opinion.

Im pretty sure that the worst they can do is get you to leave their school. Its kinda like former fast food workers talking about fast food venues. Ive yet to see any real consequence.

 

[rlobrecht]

A non-compete clause like this probably wouldn't hold up in Texas. My employer makes us agree to a similar clause, and after checking with a lawyer, it doesn't amount to anything in Texas.

Now what the school could do is to do something to protect the IP of what they are teaching, and then prevent someone else from teaching their material without being part of the club. Things like kata, technique names, and even testing requirements could all be copyrighted, and then you're stuck.

Either of these smacks of desperation. Basically the school isn't confident enough of their quality to survive on their merits alone, and have to play these games to stay in business. And then the promised badmouthing is just unprofessional and unethical. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/110438-Importance-of-Ethics-in-Selecting-a-Dojo - another ongoing thread with a similar theme.

I'd say that the student is smart to stay very far away. And unless all the schools in the area are just as slimy, it probably hasn't affected his ability to train.

 

[lklawson]

Now what the school could do is to do something to protect the IP of what they are teaching, and then prevent someone else from teaching their material without being part of the club. Things like kata, technique names, and even testing requirements could all be copyrighted, and then you're stuck.

Unless you can show Prior Art, which is usually pretty easy to do with martial arts, particularly the Eastern ones. Good luck trademarking O Soto Gari, Bassai, or the testing requirements for 3rd Gup in TKD.

You could TM the Club name. You might be able to TM the style name, if it's a really new one, particularly if it's one you developed. But all of the elements that make up the "martial art"? Pft.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[arnisador]

Good luck trademarking O Soto Gari

People have been trying to trademark/copyright yoga--not just the names but in some cases the positions.

Yoga copyright raises questions of ownership

Bikram Choudhury, the self-proclaimed Hollywood "yoga teacher to the stars," incensed his native country by getting a U.S. copyright on his style of yoga four years ago.

In response, India has put 100 historians and scientists to work cataloging 1,500 yoga poses recorded in ancient texts written in Sanskrit, Urdu and Persian. India will use the catalogue to try to block anyone from cornering the market on the 5,000-year-old discipline of stretching, breathing and meditating.
Bikram, who goes by one name like Bono and Beyoncé, says he sought legal protection for his yoga because "it's the American way."

The government wants to thwart anyone who tries to profit from the nation's so-called "traditional knowledge," from yoga to 150,000 ancient medical remedies. India already has successfully challenged one U.S. patent granted to two Indian-born Americans who used the spice turmeric in a wound-healing product. That patent was revoked by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
[...]
the digital library will be translated into English, French, Spanish, German and Japanese and sent to patent, copyright and trademark offices around the world. That way, when someone such as Bikram tries to get a copyright on yoga moves or patents on ancient medicinal cures, those offices could say: "No, that's not original. They've been doing it in India for thousands of years."

This was later nullified by the Patent Office essentially declaring yoga off-limits. They simply don't rule either way on "exercises" any more (unlike other things that do fall still fall under the heading of "choreography").

The Missionaries of Position

BROga is in good company at the patent office. During the past decade, a yoga trademarking craze has produced everything from Hillbilly Yoga® to Cougar Yoga™ (think Demi Moore, not mountain lion). Of the 2,213 trademark applications containing the word "yoga," more than 2,000 have been filed since 2001 relating to yoga styles and products, according to the government's Trademark Electronic Search System. As the Eastern mystic practice has spread from hippies to soccer moms to Metallica fans (yes, there's Metal Yoga™), aspiring gurus are seeing an opportunity in the $6 billion U.S. yoga market.
[...]
Says Derek Beres, a New York-based Yama client who registered his EarthRise Yoga® in 2008: "While I understand that I have not invented any of the poses or underlying ideas that form the basis of [EarthRise Yoga], the way I've synthesized the elements is my own." Beres's challenging course blends traditional yoga poses with martial arts—set to an upbeat world-music soundtrack that he produces. "It's very much like language," he says. "Very few of us create our own words." Time will tell whether or not this generation of aspiring stars can avoid the fate of its forebears. Joseph Pilates, the godfather of the namesake mind-and-muscle control fitness routine, suffered for failing to trademark. When Pilates Inc. tried to protect the use of his name in 2000, the courts ruled that "pilates" was free for unrestricted use.

So, I agree with your comments, but it may not be as clear-cut as it may seem.

 

[DennisBreene]

Even non-competes in the professional world are getting harder to enforce, though it varies from state to state. I doubt that trying to enforce one for a martial arts school would be very easy and the legal costs would probably be substantial IMHO.

 

[blindsage]

The only schools with non-compete clauses that I've seen are those who are mainly in it for the money, and don't want their students going elsewhere. They are also usually schools of inferior quality that also don't want their students exposed to possibly higher quality teachers and material.

 

[lklawson]

The only schools with non-compete clauses that I've seen are those who are mainly in it for the money

Nothing actually wrong with being in it mainly for the money. I really enjoy my job but the main reason I come to work every day, day in and day out, is for the money. There's nothing sacred about martial arts. It's a physical skill. If you can teach it well, it's entirely reasonable to try to make a living off of it, and it always has been in pretty much every culture.

I'm still trying to figure out all the little twists and turns that added up to so many of us in the U.S. (and western civ. in general) believing that teaching martial arts for profit somehow debases the art and the artist. I can point to some of the major trends and such, but there is almost a synergy of components that sum together to create this historically odd concept.

It's fascinating, really.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Dirty Dog]

Nothing actually wrong with being in it mainly for the money. I really enjoy my job but the main reason I come to work every day, day in and day out, is for the money. There's nothing sacred about martial arts. It's a physical skill. If you can teach it well, it's entirely reasonable to try to make a living off of it, and it always has been in pretty much every culture.

I'm still trying to figure out all the little twists and turns that added up to so many of us in the U.S. (and western civ. in general) believing that teaching martial arts for profit somehow debases the art and the artist. I can point to some of the major trends and such, but there is almost a synergy of components that sum together to create this historically odd concept.

It's fascinating, really.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I think it may be tied in to the common misconception that there are "secrets" in the various arts that are only taught to the Chosen Ones. If you're 'just in it for the money', you might teach the entire system to just ANYONE!

 

[WaterGal]

As far as I know, it's a pretty common clause. That doesn't mean that the school owner is going to sue all of his or her students who go open their own school in the next town or teach at the community center. It's meant to be a legal recourse in case a former student acts like a huge jerk.

For example, GM had an instructor who he kicked out for teaching class drunk (among other things), who went and founded a school nearby, and had copied GM's student records and called them all to trash-talk GM to try to get them to switch schools. This instructor also had access to one of the companies that GM advertised with, and conned that company into changing the ad to advertise their school (on GM's credit card!). That's the kind of situation where it's nice to have a contract clause your lawyer can cite in their cease-and-desist letter.

 

[WaterGal]

I'm still trying to figure out all the little twists and turns that added up to so many of us in the U.S. (and western civ. in general) believing that teaching martial arts for profit somehow debases the art and the artist.

I think a lot of it comes from martial arts movies where Master so-and-so is some monk or wise spiritual man who lives a simple life with few possessions (or, alternately, is independently wealthy) and teaches everyone for free.

 

[Dirty Dog]

As far as I know, it's a pretty common clause. That doesn't mean that the school owner is going to sue all of his or her students who go open their own school in the next town or teach at the community center. It's meant to be a legal recourse in case a former student acts like a huge jerk.

For example, GM had an instructor who he kicked out for teaching class drunk (among other things), who went and founded a school nearby, and had copied GM's student records and called them all to trash-talk GM to try to get them to switch schools. This instructor also had access to one of the companies that GM advertised with, and conned that company into changing the ad to advertise their school (on GM's credit card!). That's the kind of situation where it's nice to have a contract clause your lawyer can cite in their cease-and-desist letter.

Nonsense. That's called fraud and you don't need a non-compete clause to prosecute it.

I agree with those who consider these things a crutch for inferior schools, for the most part.

 

[WaterGal]

Nonsense. That's called fraud and you don't need a non-compete clause to prosecute it.

I agree with those who consider these things a crutch for inferior schools, for the most part.

No, you don't need a non-compete clause to prosecute someone for fraud. But sending someone a cease-and-desist letter over a contract matter is a hell of a lot easier way of getting them to stop harassing your students and smearing your name than trying to get the police to arrest that person for some minor white-collar offenses that could be brushed off as a "misunderstanding". Even if you have to go to court.... well, I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it's easier to win in civil court.

Anyway, it all worked out in the end without anything more than a letter. GM got the thing with the advertiser sorted out, only a few of the students went with (other instructor), and that school failed pretty quickly. Which didn't surprise anybody much at all, because this was... well, the kind of person that goes around trash-talking people and causing drama and teaching class under the influence.

 

[blindsage]

Nothing actually wrong with being in it mainly for the money. I really enjoy my job but the main reason I come to work every day, day in and day out, is for the money. There's nothing sacred about martial arts. It's a physical skill. If you can teach it well, it's entirely reasonable to try to make a living off of it, and it always has been in pretty much every culture.

I'm still trying to figure out all the little twists and turns that added up to so many of us in the U.S. (and western civ. in general) believing that teaching martial arts for profit somehow debases the art and the artist. I can point to some of the major trends and such, but there is almost a synergy of components that sum together to create this historically odd concept.

It's fascinating, really.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I don't really disagree with what your saying, so let me clarify. I don't have a problem with people being in it to make money. I know a number of quality schools that are financially successful. But the ones that I've seen that require non-compete clauses are those that are trying to lock in students into a school and usually a system that provides inferior product. They aren't in it to make money and provide a good product they're just in it to make money. Teaching martial arts for profit doesn't debase the art, debasing the art for profit debases the art.