JR 137

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There has to be a school out there that wears bubble wrap.

There has to be a school out there that goes around and only breaks stuff.

Combine those two with something like Parkour, and you’ve got the ultimate system - nothing will hurt if you’ve got enough bubble wrap on, you can smash anyone and through anything, and you could do some cool looking stuff in between and to get away from the cops.
 

Saheim

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"What works best in a street fight?" is like asking "How big is a fish?"

Is there a size/strength difference between you and your attacker (assuming you are not the attacker)? Did y'all "square off", tough guy style, or did one of you jump the other? Does your opponent have any training? Has he (assuming it's a "he") been in a lot of real fights (no gear, no rules, might go to jail over this)?

These are all things that play a part BUT, I'll give you the str8est answer I can -

If you are looking for a system that prepares you for totally unrestricted H2H (street fighting) against the average "bad @" with less formal training BUT who has experience with real violence, what you are looking for is an "over view". Police and Corrections training provides this. They take little bits and pieces from various martial arts and tailor it to the situations they are likely to end up in. They do not focus on perfecting any techniques, just getting proficient enough at addressing the most common street attacks.

So.... I guess.... go to work for the Dept of Corrections. They'l train ya WHILE they pay and AND you'l get to test the techniques you learn in real situations.

If ya can't, for some reason, go to work for them..... Eh, I guess Krav kinda sounds like it would be similar (notice the word "guess" in that sentence).
 

wingerjim

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what would you say would work best for a street fight, and don't just say whatever you train in lol really thing like take things from other arts and put them together to make the best art
That is such a vague question it is honestly hard to answer. I saw one response to avoid them....best advice there is. Can you run, hide, are weapons involved or just hand to hand. If it is the later, than it comes down to who trains best for that situation or who has an advantage. Two equally trained people, one young and one old, likely the younger, one man and one woman equally trained, usually the man but not always. For me I train in Wing Chun, but would not use that against a professional MMA fighter or boxer, I would prefer to avoid that confrontation. I also have a permit to carry a gun, but would not use that if the street fight is against someone with a truck or rifle. Bottom line it the best offence is a great defense, so avoid street fights.
 

Langenschwert

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Getting into street fights us stupid. You've likely already made some mistakes if you're in that situation.

Self-defence =/= martial arts.

To a large extent, it is what you happen to train. An experienced wrestler with a month of boxing training is going to fare better using his wrestling than his boxing.

There's no secret sauce. When weapons come out, the unarmed party is in serious trouble no matter how good they are. Best to run like mad if you can. If you're in a fight for your life, the first rule of unarmed combat is to arm yourself. Easier said than done in most jurisdictions.

Generally, if you can box well and grapple well, you're about as set up as you can be should you find yourself in a street fight. Specific arts or techniques are less important than using whatever skill you've got like a savage and not giving up.

Again, street fights are dumb. You or your opponent could hit their head on the pavement and die. So you're dead or potentially charged with murder. Not worth it unless your life or the life of someone you care about is on the line.
 

Saheim

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Getting into street fights us stupid. You've likely already made some mistakes if you're in that situation.

Self-defence =/= martial arts.

To a large extent, it is what you happen to train. An experienced wrestler with a month of boxing training is going to fare better using his wrestling than his boxing.

There's no secret sauce. When weapons come out, the unarmed party is in serious trouble no matter how good they are. Best to run like mad if you can. If you're in a fight for your life, the first rule of unarmed combat is to arm yourself. Easier said than done in most jurisdictions.

Generally, if you can box well and grapple well, you're about as set up as you can be should you find yourself in a street fight. Specific arts or techniques are less important than using whatever skill you've got like a savage and not giving up.

Again, street fights are dumb. You or your opponent could hit their head on the pavement and die. So you're dead or potentially charged with murder. Not worth it unless your life or the life of someone you care about is on the line.

I disagree with you statement: martial arts does not equal self defense.

I understand that they are not always in complete lock step but many of us specifically train MA for the purpose of real combat and I am convinced that, long ago, that is exactly what it was about. Doubt there were many exhibition teams doing kata for competition, back then.

As for accidental deaths, during street fights - I see you are from Canada and realize you have (what I would consider) restrictive laws. Keep in mind not everywhere does. I spent many years in FL, both as a resident and as a police officer. In FL, if two guys go to sluggin it out and one ends up dead (WITHOUT any real malice on the part of the other like head stomping a downed man) it is not a felony, it is an unfortunate turn of events, a freak accident, nobody is going to prison. Now, "public brawling" is a misdemeanor and the survivor if gonna answer for that but that is all he really did (by FL law) he wasn't trying to kill anybody, just fightin.
 

Langenschwert

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I disagree with you statement: martial arts does not equal self defense.

I would say that martial arts are a part of self-defence.

I understand that they are not always in complete lock step but many of us specifically train MA for the purpose of real combat and I am convinced that, long ago, that is exactly what it was about. Doubt there were many exhibition teams doing kata for competition, back then.

Real combat isn't necessarily self-defence. Battlefield warfare is not self-defence in the modern sense. A duel is not self-defence. An assassination is not self-defence. There are martial arts that cover all those things.

As for accidental deaths, during street fights - I see you are from Canada and realize you have (what I would consider) restrictive laws. Keep in mind not everywhere does. I spent many years in FL, both as a resident and as a police officer. In FL, if two guys go to sluggin it out and one ends up dead (WITHOUT any real malice on the part of the other like head stomping a downed man) it is not a felony, it is an unfortunate turn of events, a freak accident, nobody is going to prison. Now, "public brawling" is a misdemeanor and the survivor if gonna answer for that but that is all he really did (by FL law) he wasn't trying to kill anybody, just fightin.

The U.S. is an anomaly in the first world with regards to self-defence and mutual combat, with a much wider array of options for the average citizen. In many parts of the world, if someone dies in a consensual street fight, jail time is a possibility. IANAL and this is not legal advice, but we do not have a duty to retreat here in Canada. We do have to stop once a threat is neutralized. For example, we cannot pursue someone who assaults us and then flees and give them a revenge beating. We can however, strike first if under imminent threat. Should we be lucky enough to disarm a knife attack, we can't "return to sender", and so on. The key is "reasonable force". The gist is we can't start an altercation, but we can finish one using the minimum degree of force necessary. Sometimes it's lethal force, and sometimes it's not. Better to use SD and avoid such situations in the first place.
 

hoshin1600

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As for accidental deaths, during street fights - I see you are from Canada and realize you have (what I would consider) restrictive laws. Keep in mind not everywhere does. I spent many years in FL, both as a resident and as a police officer. In FL, if two guys go to sluggin it out and one ends up dead (WITHOUT any real malice on the part of the other like head stomping a downed man) it is not a felony, it is an unfortunate turn of events, a freak accident, nobody is going to prison. Now, "public brawling" is a misdemeanor and the survivor if gonna answer for that but that is all he really did (by FL law) he wasn't trying to kill anybody, just fightin
I would seriously consider re thinking this concept. While you may have experienced this it is not common even in the US. Outside a bar room near me there was an altercation. The assailant punched the victim one time in the head. The assailant is serving time for murder. I would not assume most states allow "just fighting"
 

Paul_D

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I disagree with you statement: martial arts does not equal self defense.

I understand that they are not always in complete lock step but many of us specifically train MA for the purpose of real combat and I am convinced that, long ago, that is exactly what it was about. Doubt there were many exhibition teams doing kata for competition, back then.
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I think MA has evolved into too many areas that are no longer directly related to real combat or SD for us to say now that MA is SD. Long ago maybe, but not now.

We do have exhibition teams doing kata now. Taking this one example (although there are of course many others) their training is focused primarily on performing kata as well as possible for the purpose of winning a trophy. They don't study the practical application of kata as practical application won't win you a kata competition, so they show completely impartial and unrealistic bunkai based on applying kata against karate style oi-tsuki attacks, that has nothing to so with "real combat" or SD.

I think there is far too much going on in MA that is not directly related to "real combat" for us us to say MA is SD now.
 
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webmaster786

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If self-defense is your sole purpose and you are not looking for an oriental lifestyle, I would recommend stay away from traditional martial arts like karate or taekwondo or Aikido. Because I'm an MMA fighter, I already knew 80% of the techniques and the control of the weapon and knife defense. Allot of modern fighting techniques there, In my whole life, I have never seen such a simplistic but effective form of fighting. Thus, you have to try Krav Maga, you can not be seen as one art, but as a combination of the most effective techniques for each given situation of each art: Its a militarized MMA
 

Balrog

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what would you say would work best for a street fight, and don't just say whatever you train in lol really thing like take things from other arts and put them together to make the best art
Not putting yourself into a situation where a street fight can occur is the best. Second best is running away.
 

Paul_D

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If self-defense is your sole purpose and you are not looking for an oriental lifestyle, I would recommend stay away from traditional martial arts like karate or taekwondo or Aikido. Because I'm an MMA fighter, I already knew 80% of the techniques and the control of the weapon and knife defense. Allot of modern fighting techniques there, In my whole life, I have never seen such a simplistic but effective form of fighting. Thus, you have to try Krav Maga, you can not be seen as one art, but as a combination of the most effective techniques for each given situation of each art: Its a militarized MMA
It depends what sort of karate you have in your area, certainly block.kick/punch karate I would agree should be avoiding. But if you can find someone who teaches practical bunkai then Karate is one of the best arts you can learn. Same with Krav, I am sure there's plenty of good stuff, but there's also plenty of Krap Maga out there too. Same for any art really.
 

pgsmith

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Not putting yourself into a situation where a street fight can occur is the best. Second best is running away.
But if a street really wants to fight you, how can you run away from it? Would you really be safe if you ran on the sidewalk? I would think that a street that really wanted to fight could easily reach you on the sidewalk. I think going indoors would be a better idea. I still have trouble with the notion of a street wanting to fight actually.
 

Langenschwert

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But if a street really wants to fight you, how can you run away from it? Would you really be safe if you ran on the sidewalk? I would think that a street that really wanted to fight could easily reach you on the sidewalk. I think going indoors would be a better idea. I still have trouble with the notion of a street wanting to fight actually.

That's why they're called the "mean streets" apparently. I initially thought It was a math reference, but I was wrong.
 

Kababayan

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To reinforce what everyone has already said:

- Don't be there in the first place.
- Run (your ego will heal)

To add a technique (which may have been your original intention):

- I like simultaneously covering the side of your head and jaw (boxing cover) and driving a forearm strike to the throat. If you miss high, you will hit jaw or nose. If you miss low you will hit upper chest, which may stun the attacker enough for you to run away. A forearm gives you a much wider contact surface than a punch, which only takes a quick slip to miss. Punching to the face hurts and it can be easy to miss when you include adrenaline and a moving target. A forearm can be more forgiving. To reinforce what everyone has already said, one technique won't work for all scenarios, especially weapons defenses.
 

drop bear

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I think MA has evolved into too many areas that are no longer directly related to real combat or SD for us to say now that MA is SD. Long ago maybe, but not now.

We do have exhibition teams doing kata now. Taking this one example (although there are of course many others) their training is focused primarily on performing kata as well as possible for the purpose of winning a trophy. They don't study the practical application of kata as practical application won't win you a kata competition, so they show completely impartial and unrealistic bunkai based on applying kata against karate style oi-tsuki attacks, that has nothing to so with "real combat" or SD.

I think there is far too much going on in MA that is not directly related to "real combat" for us us to say MA is SD now.

You can either do the techniques you have learned or you can not.

So even though say wrestling is different technically to boxing if both people can demonstrably and repeatedly perform those techniques on a resisting guy then they will have that tool set for street fighting.

The boxer will punch effectively enough to ward off an attacker.

The wrestler will grapple effectively enough to do the same.

If you can effectively nail a guy with a tornado kick. Then it is a viable technique.

And the more tools you have the better. Punching kicking grappling weapons and so on.

Now this doesn't change for deescalation or awareness. So if you can demonstratively and repeatably deescalate a resisting guy. That will become a skill you can use in a street fight.

If you have relied on play acting and cooperative partners in any of these skills (including soft skills) then you are relying on hope.

And for me I advise people reduce the amount of hope that is brought in to a street fight.
 

Paul_D

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Lots of people saying “don’t be there” but what skills are you going to implement to “not be there”?
 

pgsmith

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That's why they're called the "mean streets" apparently. I initially thought It was a math reference, but I was wrong.
That should not have been nearly as funny as it was (mark of the geek!). :)

Common sense would be a good start
Common sense is pretty uncommon though. Just peruse YouTube for a bunch of examples. :)

Lots of people saying “don’t be there” but what skills are you going to implement to “not be there”?
Thoughtfulness, restraint, situational awareness and, as Balrog pointed out, just plain common sense. Of course, that's not what is usually taught in most martial arts "self defense" classes.
 

Saheim

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I would say that martial arts are a part of self-defence.



Real combat isn't necessarily self-defence. Battlefield warfare is not self-defence in the modern sense. A duel is not self-defence. An assassination is not self-defence. There are martial arts that cover all those things.



The U.S. is an anomaly in the first world with regards to self-defence and mutual combat, with a much wider array of options for the average citizen. In many parts of the world, if someone dies in a consensual street fight, jail time is a possibility. IANAL and this is not legal advice, but we do not have a duty to retreat here in Canada. We do have to stop once a threat is neutralized. For example, we cannot pursue someone who assaults us and then flees and give them a revenge beating. We can however, strike first if under imminent threat. Should we be lucky enough to disarm a knife attack, we can't "return to sender", and so on. The key is "reasonable force". The gist is we can't start an altercation, but we can finish one using the minimum degree of force necessary. Sometimes it's lethal force, and sometimes it's not. Better to use SD and avoid such situations in the first place.

Yea, I can agree with that - MA is part of self defense.

Btw - cool that you have no "duty to retreat", up there. A lot of states, in the U.S., are not so lucky. In many states, people do have a duty to retreat. In some places, even from their homes.
 

Langenschwert

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Yea, I can agree with that - MA is part of self defense.

Btw - cool that you have no "duty to retreat", up there. A lot of states, in the U.S., are not so lucky. In many states, people do have a duty to retreat. In some places, even from their homes.

SD laws in Canada are fairly well thought out. Even weapons laws are not so bad. They are generally intent-based. For example, a sword carried to a martial arts practice in a bag isn't an offense, as I'm not using the object with intent to harm. Any police officer who's asked me about my sword bag usually responds with "cool, I do FMA" or something. However, if you're using a screwdriver to attack someone, that's a weapons offense, because you're using a tool as a deadly weapon. Again, I am not a lawyer, etc.
 

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