Sport And TMA....Again

[Steve]

So no. You have no evidence just opinion.

There are tons of blogs and support sites for women in grappling arts like Bjj and these issues are discussed.

I don't think that anyone has commissioned a study, and I suspect that if they did you would dismiss the study as biased.

I don't agree with everything hanzou says, but in my opinion, he's spot on with this. The ego takes a beating in Bjj and there's no hiding from your skill or lack of it. And I've seen tough guys panic from shoulder pressure and claustrophobia.

One of the real advantages of grappling over striking is the ability to spar at close to 100% without getting dangerous. But it can be hard to get past the space and pressure, and not everyone is able to do it.

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[TFP]

Oh of course, im not anti striking arts at all! But there is overwhelming proof that if you don't know how to grapple and you come across a guy with a grappling martial background, then you are in big trouble...... There is not overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[TFP]

Not really. Unless you consider Vale Tudo and dojo/challenge matches as "MMA". It's a common defense and fallacy that if someone isn't attacked without warning that a fight really isn't a "true self defense" moment. I think this is silly, there are plenty of challenge matches set up that are infect true moments of defending ones self.

 

[RTKDCMB]

But there is overwhelming proof that if you don't know how to grapple and you come across a guy with a grappling martial background, then you are in big trouble...... There is not overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Provide sources, preferably credible ones.

 

[TFP]

Oh and as far as the original question goes, IMO it's a double edged sword.

one hand, sport martial arts at least have a go with live resistance which IMO makes them better. But as you turn it into a "sport"'people look for ways to "win" the game and this May take away from what really works in a real life fight.

sport BJJ is going to be the watering g down of Jiu-Jitsu as a self defense martial art. IMO.

 

[ballen0351]

There are tons of blogs and support sites for women in grappling arts like Bjj and these issues are discussed.

I don't think that anyone has commissioned a study, and I suspect that if they did you would dismiss the study as biased.

I don't agree with everything hanzou says, but in my opinion, he's spot on with this. The ego takes a beating in Bjj and there's no hiding from your skill or lack of it. And I've seen tough guys panic from shoulder pressure and claustrophobia.

One of the real advantages of grappling over striking is the ability to spar at close to 100% without getting dangerous. But it can be hard to get past the space and pressure, and not everyone is able to do it.

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I wasn't really talking about the Woman part I was more talking the "TMAs are full of guys with egos". I don't see that in my experience. Especially when I see a Gracie tweeting as he assaults a man on a street corner. And all that crap that came out of the Lloyd Irving camp. Higaonna a 10th Dan in Goju is very humble he refuses to be called master he says he's still a student like everyone else he's just been in class a little longer then most. But its always been my personal experience that I've been treated with kindness and respect everywhere I've gone.

 

[TFP]

Provide sources, preferably credible ones.

UFC's 1-10. Gracie tapes and Gracie Challenge for another. Now of course highly marketed, but still very solid evidence to this fact.

Hell Gene Lebell was proving Judo/Catch over striking arts also.

people like to discredit the UFC and the Gracie's for what ever reason, but honestly, before this there was little to no proof of art vs art, style vs style.

no one stepped up and successfully defended there art vs Gracie JJ when the gauntlet was put down.

 

[TFP]

I wasn't really talking about the Woman part I was more talking the "TMAs are full of guys with egos". I don't see that in my experience. Especially when I see a Gracie tweeting as he assaults a man on a street corner. And all that crap that came out of the Lloyd Irving camp. Higaonna a 10th Dan in Goju is very humble he refuses to be called master he says he's still a student like everyone else he's just been in class a little longer then most. But its always been my personal experience that I've been treated with kindness and respect everywhere I've gone.

A lot of BJJ guys do not realize the rise of there art came from a family of thugs who were not respectful one bit. They were hell bent on attacking all other arts like it or not.

 

[ballen0351]

UFC's 1-10. Gracie tapes and Gracie Challenge for another. Now of course highly marketed, but still very solid evidence to this fact.

Hell Gene Lebell was proving Judo/Catch over striking arts also.

people like to discredit the UFC and the Gracie's for what ever reason, but honestly, before this there was little to no proof of art vs art, style vs style.

no one stepped up and su chess fully defended there art vs Gracie JJ when the gauntlet was put down.

You do realize there have been art vs art and style vs style fights for hundreds if not thousands of years. We just didn't have TVs and internet to broadcast it. This wasn't a new thing it was just a new way to get it to the masses. Also the Gracie's were not undefeated either in these challenges helio was loosing matches as far back as the 30s

 

[Hanzou]

Provide sources, preferably credible ones.

The Gracie challenges. The first UFCs. Gene Lebelle beating boxers with ground subs. Fusen Ryu defeating the Kodakan.

 

[Hanzou]

A lot of BJJ guys do not realize the rise of there art came from a family of thugs who were not respectful one bit. They were hell bent on attacking all other arts like it or not.

Unlike most people, Bjj guys actually hang out and conversate with the Gracies and other Brazilian masters of the art. Again this is personal experience, but Royce, Relson, Renzo, and Rickson were complete gentleman to me and my family. Marcelo Garcia was awesome, and I regret not getting the chance to roll with him.

 

[ballen0351]

Unlike most people, Bjj guys actually hang out and conversate with the Gracies and other Brazilian masters of the art. Again this is personal experience, but Royce, Relson, Renzo, and Rickson were complete gentleman to me and my family. Marcelo Garcia was awesome, and I regret not getting the chance to roll with him.

Just don't ask them for a cigarette. He will give you racoon eyes

 

[TFP]

You do realize there have been art vs art and style vs style fights for hundreds if not thousands of years. We just didn't have TVs and internet to broadcast it. This wasn't a new thing it was just a new way to get it to the masses. Also the Gracie's were not undefeated either in these challenges helio was loosing matches as far back as the 30s

This is so disingenuous IMO. Can you sit a major "all martial arts welcome" contest that pitted all styles vs all styles? And no the Gracie's we're not undefeated, can you site a fighter from a predominantly striking art that beat the Gracie's?

 

[RTKDCMB]

UFC's 1-10. Gracie tapes and Gracie Challenge for another. Now of course highly marketed, but still very solid evidence to this fact.

Hell Gene Lebell was proving Judo/Catch over striking arts also.

people like to discredit the UFC and the Gracie's for what ever reason, but honestly, before this there was little to no proof of art vs art, style vs style.

no one stepped up and successfully defended there art vs Gracie JJ when the gauntlet was put down.

I said credible sources, if I took the time to research I could probably find 100's of arts and 1000's of martial artists that were not included in any of those.

 

[ballen0351]

By the way I did meet the young Gracie can't remember his name at a police expo he was selling his Gracie for police program. He was very nice but he was also trying to see me something so that could play a roll.

 

[TFP]

Unlike most people, Bjj guys actually hang out and conversate with the Gracies and other Brazilian masters of the art. Again this is personal experience, but Royce, Relson, Renzo, and Rickson were complete gentleman to me and my family. Marcelo Garcia was awesome, and I regret not getting the chance to roll with him.

Of course they are polite and nice to those in BJJ or to be more specific to those in there lineage who they do not have a family beef with at the moment. And yes more so since BJJ as been brought to North America. But you just have to take a quick look at the short history of GJJ/BJJ to if that art is rooted/founded or built on respect and honor.

The fact that it wasn't is one of the sole reasons it's become so successful.

 

[TFP]

I said credible sources, if I took the time to research I could probably find 100's of arts and 1000's of martial artists that were not included in any of those.

well to me there is nothing more "credible" than facing off and proving it. I'm not even sure what you mean by 100's of arts and 1000's of Martial artists who didn't step up.

The point is the ones that did step up didn't produce. I mean these are fighting arts we are talking about right?

this was the decade for martial artists to prove there style. One rose to the top........and thus changed gave birth to another that has changed the face of martial arts for ever.

 

[Steve]

By the way I did meet the young Gracie can't remember his name at a police expo he was selling his Gracie for police program. He was very nice but he was also trying to see me something so that could play a roll.

I'm 99% sure that was rener Gracie. The Gracie family is large and they also don't all get along. Rener is very charismatic and seems like a genuinely nice young man.

And a good salesman, too.

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[ballen0351]

I'm 99% sure that was rener Gracie. The Gracie family is large and they also don't all get along. Rener is very charismatic and seems like a genuinely nice young man.

And a good salesman, too.

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YES that was him. I knew it started with an R.......oh wait.
Yeah he was a cool guy. Very smart as well. I really liked his use of grappling. It wasn't to take people down it was to create distance so you can grab a taser or gun or OC spray or whatever tool you needed.

 

[ballen0351]

This is so disingenuous IMO. Can you sit a major "all martial arts welcome" contest that pitted all styles vs all styles? And no the Gracie's we're not undefeated, can you site a fighter from a predominantly striking art that beat the Gracie's?

It's not disingenuous fighting was Huge in the late 1800s early 1900s. People would travel the world to fight. They were big time back then. Like traveling circus but with fighters. Use some Google fu man. Its out there.