Sparring

[drop bear]

Sadly this is pretty common.

Happens in mma a bit. You get bashed in boxing and come out with the "but I could have taken him down" comment.

 

[drop bear]

We have some similar issues with the Classical Techniques in NGA - they are actually kata, and when we get into the applications, things can look and work very differently.

Depends on your reference. If form follows function then yes. If it dosent then you obviously don't understand the kata well enough.

There seem to be two schools of thought on that issue.

(Late explanation on that earlier comment I made)

 

[drop bear]

No, it doesn't. Chance of success is statistical, not situational. The chance of someone fighting back after having their eye pulled out is pretty low, yielding a high chance of success.

Now the chance of success at pulling someone's eye out is pretty low, whether they are fighting back or not, given the structure of the eye and the musculature attached to it.

So, it depends which success you're looking at the chances of.

You are less likely to get the shot if you are being punched in the face. It is reference to that concept where your partner fires a flaccid punch and stands there while you unleash the deadly.

 

[RTKDCMB]

That would be the most logical conclusion

Only if your logic is flawed, hasty generalization and all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Depends on your reference. If form follows function then yes. If it dosent then you obviously don't understand the kata well enough.

There seem to be two schools of thought on that issue.

(Late explanation on that earlier comment I made)

That still doesn't explain your "form follows function" comment. That's an engineering motto, which basically means that the form of a thing must flow from the function it is meant to serve, rather than being entirely for looks (in cases where the latter might make it less functional).

So, if you mean by that phrase that movement and stance (in MA) should all be based upon the need of the application, I agree entirely. If that's not essentially what you meant, please let me know.

As for your reference to our kata, your "form follows function" doesn't really seem to have any relevance. The kata version of our techniques in many cases has no true combat function. I'll pick one for explanation. The Classical Technique is called "Unbendable Arm", and starts from a static same-side grip (so uke's left hand gripping nage's right, for instance, and not crossing their bodies). The response involves slightly complicated footwork, specific angles of movement, an uke who hangs on as if your arm were worth keeping while standing still as if he were standing on a land mine, and multiple weight shifts. If I showed it to you, you'd say there's no way that's a self-defense move. And you'd be right. The point of that kata is to work on weight shifts, double-weighting an uke, dropping the one point (center of gravity), practicing the mechanics of an arm that doesn't bend without tension, and several other things. In application, very little is the same. Typically when we use Unbendable Arm in application, it's a very simple unbending, not-tense arm being used to off-balance the attacker (shoved in his face while entering, for example), and most of the rest of the "Technique" is absent. That's how several of our Classical Techniques work, though UA is clearly the most distant from application.

Oh, and before you say something so definitive about someone's art (if you don't see it, you don't understand the kata), maybe you ought to know at least a little about the art? I know that might be true in your art (I know it is in many, as I've heard from experienced practitioners in those), but our kata are often not nearly as deep. For instance, unlike what I've been shown/explained in some CMA kata, there are not multiple movements and options in a single point of our kata. There are not multiple levels in them - they are straightforward, for the most part (again, UA being the most notable exception). I've actually been working on some new kata with multiple movements in them, to build a training tool that delivers some of those benefits, but they are not currently in the art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think anybody who enters a MMA/NHB competition without significant cross-training, and more important, specific training geared to the particular form of competition - is going to get destroyed, regardless of what their base art happens to be.

I've actually been told by several instructors in various arts that they don't consider their arts as stand-alone arts, in the first place. (One was a BJJ instructor, another from some style of Karate I've forgotten.) To them, their style was about something specific (BJJ for ground fighting, for instance), and they expected students to seek other bits in other arts, even if only in occasional seminars. Of course, I know other instructors in some of those same styles who either believe their style is fairly complete for what they teach it for (some including self-defense), and others who have adopted information from other styles they studied to bring in what they felt was missing. I do know that in some Japanese TMA, if the training history actually goes back to the samurai, the style may have originated with the expectation of certain existing experience among the students, and may not have taught it for that reason - it wasn't necessary if they already knew it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are less likely to get the shot if you are being punched in the face. It is reference to that concept where your partner fires a flaccid punch and stands there while you unleash the deadly.

I'm not sure how this is a response to my post...

 

[RTKDCMB]

When all else fails they resort to the classic arguments that they're either above fighting in a cage, they have no desire to seek "fortune and fame", or that their martial art of choice is too deadly for competitive fighting.

Your art is not above fighting in a cage,, your martial art is not too deadly for competitive fighting, how rich and famous are you?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Is the topi,c the effectiveness of the crane stance in a fight?

Daniel Laruso did alright with it.

 

[RTKDCMB]

In my first collegiate karate sparring tournament, in my semi-final match, I was one point away from winning. Now I am not aware of the chinese traditional crane stance, but we do use the one leg stance where the other leg is in the air chambered for a front kick. As I approached my opponent I raised my leg and left it locked in the one-leg stance ( which is what we call it). It became difficult for my opponent to strike my body , because my chambered leg was blocking, as far as my hand placement it remained in our traditional sparring stance, one hand by the ear, the other right under the eye . With the chambered leg I transitioned it into a twisting kick which landed right on my opponents chin. In point sparring I found that the one leg stance was practical and worked. It was different, and not everyone is used to it.

Wasn't that the ending to the Karate Kid?

 

[Hanzou]

You are less likely to get the shot if you are being punched in the face. It is reference to that concept where your partner fires a flaccid punch and stands there while you unleash the deadly.

That video is a prime example of what happens when you don't do full contact sparring.

 

[Hanzou]

Your art is not above fighting in a cage,, your martial art is not too deadly for competitive fighting, how rich and famous are you?

My art is also common in the MMA world. Again, everyone in MMA does Bjj, so a Bjj guy winning a few amateur fights is no big deal.

A traditional Kung Fu guy winning amateur MMA fights? An amateur Kung Fu guy competing onTUF and beating MMA fighters? Yeah, they can write their own ticket.

 

[RTKDCMB]

That video is a prime example of what happens when you don't do full contact sparring.

Really?

 

[Hanzou]

Really?

I'm not surprised that you think that's a real fight.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I'm not surprised that you think that's a real fight.

I'm not surprised that you would deflect when proven wrong.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not surprised that you would deflect when proven wrong.

Uh, how was I proven wrong? I said that the first video showed crappy technique and fantasy, and you show a video of a phoney fighting match showing more crappy, nonsensical technique to "prove me wrong"?

Okay....

 

[Tez3]

Isn't bringing up Ashida Kim in a martial arts debate/discussion the martial arts equivalent of Godwin's Law? I mean, really, who ever brings him into a serious conversation?

 

[Flying Crane]

...guys like Kron Gracie, Damian Maia, or Ryan Hall.

who? Should I know who these people are? Bah, I just don't give a rat's ***.

You, on the other hand come from a style that is nonexistent in MMA. <snip>... and you say that you have a better striking method than MMA/Boxing and it all comes from ancient Chinese methods?

Yup, I do say exactly that. And it's a method you will never understand.

I don't claim that I myself am skilled enough to defeat these MMA people, I don't actually care one way or the other. But yeah, my methodology is superior.

I simply find it odd that you and no one else you train with have ANY desire to be fighters. <snip> and just rather live like a bum in the mountain.

I actually have a wife, a son, a house overlooking the California coastline, two cars and a job with a large company making decent money. I'm no bum living in the mountain.

How about you? have you moved out of your mother's basement yet?

 

[Flying Crane]

It appears to be a variation on the crane stance, given his "beak hand" and the raised leg.

Um... I actually train in the Tibetan white crane method. We don't do that...

 

[Hanzou]

who? Should I know who these people are? Bah, I just don't give a rat's ***.

Since that quote wasn't directed towards you, I wouldn't expect you to.

Yup, I do say exactly that. And it's a method you will never understand.

I don't claim that I myself am skilled enough to defeat these MMA people, I don't actually care one way or the other. But yeah, my methodology is superior.

Of course it is.

I actually have a wife, a son, a house overlooking the California coastline, two cars and a job with a large company making decent money. I'm no bum living in the mountain.

Of course you do.