Sparring

Hanzou said:
He wasn't sparring full contact. He was performing an act for a crowd. It's no different than WWE wrestling, or a carnival show, everything is scripted and plotted out ahead of time, and the stunts are rehearsed in order to wow the crowds.

Again, I'm not surprised that you fell for it.



Well first off I didn't find the example, Drop Bear did. I simply commented on it, since Ashida Kim is the epitome of fake/phoney martial arts.



Just about everything about that was fake. Again, its a choreographed fight show no different than what you see in WWE wrasslin'.
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Around the middle and toward the end it seemed like there was "throw me, ok now you throw me now" kind of bit going. I wasn't sure if this was coincidental or as you said. A show.

Does this fighter have negative reputation for doing this?
 
drop bear said:
Because they are better fighters than me at that level. They are better fighters than hanzou at that level and we would get bashed. I wouldn't look forward to try to do them in the street either.
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Odds are they won't fight in street. Street fighting is just idiotic and frowned upon.
I hope you aren't just saying these guys are pros and I will never try to get to their level.

If that is the case you are only creating your own glass ceiling.
 
Ironbear24 said:
Around the middle and toward the end it seemed like there was "throw me, ok now you throw me now" kind of bit going. I wasn't sure if this was coincidental or as you said. A show.

Does this fighter have negative reputation for doing this?
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Enjoy.
 
Ironbear24 said:
Odds are they won't fight in street. Street fighting is just idiotic and frowned upon.
I hope you aren't just saying these guys are pros and I will never try to get to their level.

If that is the case you are only creating your own glass ceiling.
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My success rate is a combination of lack of effort and natural talent. So yes I do create my own glass ceiling. And I do that intentionally. This is because I have other things that are more important to me the martial arts.

In comparison I have a friend who pretends to work late so he can sneak in hill sprints and his wife won't know.
 
I propose Hanzou and dropbear take up Ashida Kim's challenge. We need to know who's martial arts is the best.
 
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Tez3 said:
and now you see the pointlessness of posting anything by him.
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Not pointless at all. It is a classic manipulation of the street sport debate.

Ashida kim is why we should Spar.
 
Ironbear24 said:
Odds are they won't fight in street. Street fighting is just idiotic and frowned upon.
I hope you aren't just saying these guys are pros and I will never try to get to their level.

If that is the case you are only creating your own glass ceiling.
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I disagree on that latter point. It's mostly a matter of 1) did he start soon enough to get in the training time, 2) does he have enough natural talent to start with from wherever he started, and 3) is he willing to put in the time, pain, and effort needed. Most of us can readily acknowledge that we are going to fall short on that last one - I simply am not interested in training as much as would be required, even if I were young enough to go that route. That's not creating a glass ceiling, it's acknowledging one's own priorities, and that's a good thing.

Unless he _is_ actually saying he can't reach their level just because it's their level. Then you're spot on.
 
drop bear said:
Not pointless at all. It is a classic manipulation of the street sport debate.

Ashida kim is why we should Spar.
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I disagree. Bad sparring, with an instructor who doesn't know or acknowledge his shortcomings, can produce someone who thinks they are better than they are. I've seen a demonstration by a school that has competition trophies, where they demonstrated supposed SD responses. Their strikes were awful, and I can't see how they possibly win fights. The FedEx drop box I use is right outside their school, and I've seen them sparring in there - or what they believe is sparring.

Again, good training is what's needed. Sparring is a great component - perhaps even a nearly necessary component for effective SD training - but it is not a cure-all.
 
gpseymour said:
I disagree on that latter point. It's mostly a matter of 1) did he start soon enough to get in the training time, 2) does he have enough natural talent to start with from wherever he started, and 3) is he willing to put in the time, pain, and effort needed. Most of us can readily acknowledge that we are going to fall short on that last one - I simply am not interested in training as much as would be required, even if I were young enough to go that route. That's not creating a glass ceiling, it's acknowledging one's own priorities, and that's a good thing.

Unless he _is_ actually saying he can't reach their level just because it's their level. Then you're spot on.
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I have had friends who have come from nothing to become elite fighters. It is definitely dooable. You just can't do it and treat martial arts like a hobby.
 
gpseymour said:
I disagree. Bad sparring, with an instructor who doesn't know or acknowledge his shortcomings, can produce someone who thinks they are better than they are. I've seen a demonstration by a school that has competition trophies, where they demonstrated supposed SD responses. Their strikes were awful, and I can't see how they possibly win fights. The FedEx drop box I use is right outside their school, and I've seen them sparring in there - or what they believe is sparring.

Again, good training is what's needed. Sparring is a great component - perhaps even a nearly necessary component for effective SD training - but it is not a cure-all.
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Good point. You need to Spar people who are good.

Otherwise I was going back to topic. If this was a thread on drills then I would focus more on that aspect.

Bad sparring is easy to find. I generally just pick a sport and then look for a belt grading.

So muay Thai and black belt gives me this.
 
drop bear said:
I have had friends who have come from nothing to become elite fighters. It is definitely dooable. You just can't do it and treat martial arts like a hobby.
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Of course they have - it's doable at some point. Every champion was, at one point, "nothing". It's a matter of when you start (at age 40, it's too late unless you are a truly gifted person, as far as healing factor, etc.), where you start from (if you're totally clumsy, it takes longer to get totally good), and how much you are willing to put into it. I never said someone couldn't reach those levels - just that most of us admit we aren't going to do what would be necessary (the third part), regardless of the other 2.
 
Hanzou said:
He wasn't sparring full contact. He was performing an act for a crowd. It's no different than WWE wrestling, or a carnival show, everything is scripted and plotted out ahead of time, and the stunts are rehearsed in order to wow the crowds.

Again, I'm not surprised that you fell for it.
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And again I am not surprised that you would find something to complain about and explain away when your example does not make the point you thought it would.

Hanzou said:
Well first off I didn't find the example, Drop Bear did. I simply commented on it, since Ashida Kim is the epitome of fake/phoney martial arts.
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You did not simply comment on it you attempted to use it as an example of what happens when you don't spar full contact. You may have not been the one who found it but you were the one who presented it as a false equivalency between phony/fake martial arts and martial arts that don't spar full contact.
 
Having been away from this thread for a bit, I just watched the two Ashida Kim videos.

I grudgingly admit I am more than a little jealous.
 
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