Point Sparring

[Tez3]

Well of course the other thing is that point sparring isn't nearly as much fun as 'proper' sparring!! Point sparring is playing tag with the kids compared to full contact sparring which is playing with the grown ups :ultracool

Chris, I think what one of Sgtmac's points is, and I can confirm that I've seen this a lot, is that places that spar very lightly also do their SD and other techniques very lightly. It's almost a mantra for everything they do that you learn all the techniques but don't put them on in training. It's also true that many places that compete in point sparring also claim its use for SD. If point sparring is just used for competitions the class instructors should say so, not pretend it's useful for anything else which is what riles many of us I'm afraid. It may be horses for courses but it also has to be honest, don't mislead people as to what you do.

As with the MMA argument involving SD there is a tendancy for some people to think that training is 'either or', it's perfectly possible to train more than one thing. So many people say MMA people can't do SD because of the rules, ref etc ( indeed has been said here) but that argument ignores the fact that MMA can change mindset very easily into SD 'mode, as can any other martial artist. Well rounded martial artists train in many disciplines within their own style. Many train weapons they aren't likely to use on the street, no one says that if you do nunchukus you can't change your mindset and defend yourself on the street!
Train point sparring for point sparring comps but please don't advertise it's going to turn you into a street fighter. And yes I've seen some ads similiar to that from clubs that have no contact whatsoever.

 

[Chris Parker]

Absolutely agreed with both your good self Irene, and sgtmac there, point sparring is far from beneficial in self defence (more of a placebo effect than anything, really), and if an instructor is teaching it as self defence, they are doing themselves, their system, and most importantly their students an incredible disservice, so it should be pointed out by such instructors the true uesfullness or lack of in such training... of course, that will probably have an effect on their marketing, not to mention their sense of self as it pertains to their system! I do wish they would stop, though... I spend a fair amount of my time needing to explain to students the difference as it is, if we could get away from such confusion, it would be so much easier!

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well of course the other thing is that point sparring isn't nearly as much fun as 'proper' sparring!! Point sparring is playing tag with the kids compared to full contact sparring which is playing with the grown ups :ultracool

Chris, I think what one of Sgtmac's points is, and I can confirm that I've seen this a lot, is that places that spar very lightly also do their SD and other techniques very lightly. It's almost a mantra for everything they do that you learn all the techniques but don't put them on in training. It's also true that many places that compete in point sparring also claim its use for SD. If point sparring is just used for competitions the class instructors should say so, not pretend it's useful for anything else which is what riles many of us I'm afraid. It may be horses for courses but it also has to be honest, don't mislead people as to what you do.

As with the MMA argument involving SD there is a tendancy for some people to think that training is 'either or', it's perfectly possible to train more than one thing. So many people say MMA people can't do SD because of the rules, ref etc ( indeed has been said here) but that argument ignores the fact that MMA can change mindset very easily into SD 'mode, as can any other martial artist. Well rounded martial artists train in many disciplines within their own style. Many train weapons they aren't likely to use on the street, no one says that if you do nunchukus you can't change your mindset and defend yourself on the street!
Train point sparring for point sparring comps but please don't advertise it's going to turn you into a street fighter. And yes I've seen some ads similiar to that from clubs that have no contact whatsoever.

Point sparring almost ends up becoming LARPing........'I cut your leg off so you have to hop around now' kind of play acting.

A prime example of how that instills false expectations is within the FMA community and the Dog Brothers and the Pekiti Tirsia circle that it partially evolved from.

Lots of FMA guys were doing what was in essence point sparring with sticks and heavily padded Michellin man suits, scoring points, and telling themselves that, with the sticks they were using, the strikes they were giving each other for points would be COMPLETELY effective in the street if they used them on someone unpadded.

Then some guys came along and said 'Well, lets test that theory and see what happens......' and found out that, well, no, not really........a big tough guy can take some serious blows from a stick that had formerly been thought not only effective, but in some cases, disabling or lethal, and could not only take them, but shrug them off, ploy through them, and take the other guy to the ground and pound him out!

What's more, they found out that many of the expectations and training drills being done created false expectations of range and timing, and could not be pulled off under the pressure of an active opponent.

Which illustrates one of the key flaws of training it without fighting it........false expectations and assumptions!

What ends up happening in TMA's is that we all develop this belief that 'Somewhere, back in time, in some distant shadowy past, proto-martial artists actually fought using this stuff and PROVED that it worked, so we didn't have to!'