Sparring

[drop bear]

Here's what I use when I generate my punch. Force from pushing from by back leg + Force from Forward movement from the push from my leg (a minimum it's 200lbs of force) + Force of twisting from my waist + Force from arms = My Punch. If I time my punch or pull my opponent into me then you can add + Force of me pulling my towards my fist.

You are right that there's nothing magical about Kung Fu but there's a lot of mechanics and "Force Multipliers" that are in martial arts that aren't in boxing.

Boxing isnt a fixed style. If you punch harder then you should be able to beat boxers at their own game.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You actually sort of can. Head movement is a component of the damage you recieve. And that can be controlled with position and neck strength.

Head movement isn't the same as conditioning the face to take an impact. Moving your head is an effort to get out of the way of a punch and not take it. Neck strength is not face strength.
Yeah this guy thought that he can condition the head to take a hit

But life proved him wrong. Guess what he doesn't do anymore.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know what is or is not in a boxers punch. I only know what is in mine and I'm satisfied with that.

I've seen boxing footage that has left me unimpressed in terms of punching mechanics, yet as athletes they can certainly be effective with their punching.

I'm not an athlete of that same caliber as a top rated boxer. Not by a long shot. But the mechanics I use in punching still give me the tools to hit really hard. So what I have works well for me, regardless of what others have and how well it works for them. Those are independent issues. The one does not affect the other. How powerfully I can hit, using my methodology, in no way affects how powerfully someone else can hit using their methodology. The one does not cancel out the other. All I really care about is how well my stuff works for me. And I don't much care what others might think of it.

I think it's important to not forget these issues. Otherwise the discussion devolves back into arguing over who has the biggest dick.

On that note, have I mentioned how big mine is? I'd like to show it to you all... <unzips>

The biggest dick is a good analogy because the question is easily answered. You can physically compare them.

This is how sparring works. Instead of trying to talk your way around a subject you rely on physical evidence.

 

[drop bear]

Head movement isn't the same as conditioning the face to take an impact. Moving your head is an effort to get out of the way of a punch and not take it. Neck strength is not face strength.
Yeah this guy thought that he can condition the head to take a hit

But life proved him wrong. Guess what he doesn't do anymore.

It is a component in the overall strategy designed to help yo be less bashed. Using only that component is questionable.

 

[Flying Crane]

The biggest dick is a good analogy because the question is easily answered. You can physically compare them.

This is how sparring works. Instead of trying to talk your way around a subject you rely on physical evidence.

And as I say, I don't much care what you think about what I do. You actually have no idea what i do. Meh.

 

[Tez3]

Shaken Baby Syndrome, anyone familiar with it? It's when a baby is shaken and it's brain bounces off the skull backwards and forwards causing brain damage usually severe enough to cause haemorrhage and death. This is exactly what happens when you take a head shot., your brain hits the bone of your skull and then hits the other side. It's far from being a laughing matter. I put up the scientific links before this is still scientific but perhaps easier to read for those who think such things are funny.
What Really Happens to Your Brain When You Get Punched in the Head

 

[Ironbear24]

Shaken Baby Syndrome, anyone familiar with it? It's when a baby is shaken and it's brain bounces off the skull backwards and forwards causing brain damage usually severe enough to cause haemorrhage and death. This is exactly what happens when you take a head shot., your brain hits the bone of your skull and then hits the other side. It's far from being a laughing matter. I put up the scientific links before this is still scientific but perhaps easier to read for those who think such things are funny.
What Really Happens to Your Brain When You Get Punched in the Head

Yup this way not everybody spars full force all of the time. But apparently fried rice thinks boxers and mma people are invincible and immune to this kind of damage. Or maybe there is not much up there that can shake around?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Boxing isnt a fixed style. If you punch harder then you should be able to beat boxers at their own game.

Winning in boxing has nothing to do with how hard you punch. Only someone who doesn't understand fighting would even think that just because they can hit harder means that they can win a fight or "beat someone at their own game"

1. A boxer can punch harder than me, I don't care because I don't box
2. I'm not a boxer so why would I try to win a fight as one? Why would a boxer try to win as a martial artist when he's not a martial artist?

 

[Flying Crane]

Shaken Baby Syndrome, anyone familiar with it? It's when a baby is shaken and it's brain bounces off the skull backwards and forwards causing brain damage usually severe enough to cause haemorrhage and death. This is exactly what happens when you take a head shot., your brain hits the bone of your skull and then hits the other side. It's far from being a laughing matter. I put up the scientific links before this is still scientific but perhaps easier to read for those who think such things are funny.
What Really Happens to Your Brain When You Get Punched in the Head

Sometimes you gotta step back and let people do to themselves what they will.

You can't idiot-proof the world.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't know what is or is not in a boxers punch. I only know what is in mine and I'm satisfied with that.

I've seen boxing footage that has left me unimpressed in terms of punching mechanics, yet as athletes they can certainly be effective with their punching.

I'm not an athlete of that same caliber as a top rated boxer. Not by a long shot. But the mechanics I use in punching still give me the tools to hit really hard. So what I have works well for me, regardless of what others have and how well it works for them. Those are independent issues. The one does not affect the other. How powerfully I can hit, using my methodology, in no way affects how powerfully someone else can hit using their methodology. The one does not cancel out the other. All I really care about is how well my stuff works for me. And I don't much care what others might think of it.

I think it's important to not forget these issues. Otherwise the discussion devolves back into arguing over who has the biggest dick.

On that note, have I mentioned how big mine is? I'd like to show it to you all... <unzips>

I never said boxers couldn't hit hard or don't hit hard
If you look at my previous posts, none of what you are mentioning is in my comments. There is a lot of assumptions being made about what I said which is why the conversation had taken the course. If you look back you can see where I'm talking about some non-pro boxers trying to hit each other hard in the head. This whole thing about who is hitting harder didn't come from me.

Then you made a comment about me only hitting with my waist so I posted how I generate my power so you don't have to guess about how I hit. If you post how you draw your power for your punch then you'll see clearly that you we both may throw a jab, but how we put power into that jab is different. That's just the mechanics of if, it's not a who hits harder issue for me as that all depends on who is throwing the punch. But the mechanics of a punch is fairly consistent.

 

[Flying Crane]

I never said boxers couldn't hit hard or don't hit hard
If you look at my previous posts, none of what you are mentioning is in my comments. There is a lot of assumptions being made about what I said which is why the conversation had taken the course. If you look back you can see where I'm talking about some non-pro boxers trying to hit each other hard in the head. This whole thing about who is hitting harder didn't come from me.

Then you made a comment about me only hitting with my waist so I posted how I generate my power so you don't have to guess about how I hit. If you post how you draw your power for your punch then you'll see clearly that you we both may throw a jab, but how we put power into that jab is different. That's just the mechanics of if, it's not a who hits harder issue for me as that all depends on who is throwing the punch. But the mechanics of a punch is fairly consistent.

My comments weren't intended for you, tho your post was my springboard. My views actually parallel yours fairly consistently.

The comment about you using your waist was not made by me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My comments weren't intended for you, tho your post was my springboard. My views actually parallel yours fairly consistently.

The comment about you using your waist was not made by me.

Sorry about Flying Crane. I'll make sure that comment will get to the right person lol.

 

[drop bear]

And as I say, I don't much care what you think about what I do. You actually have no idea what i do. Meh.

Kind of hard to be on a discussion forum if you dont care about what other people do.

I mean why do you bother?

 

[drop bear]

Winning in boxing has nothing to do with how hard you punch. Only someone who doesn't understand fighting would even think that just because they can hit harder means that they can win a fight or "beat someone at their own game"

1. A boxer can punch harder than me, I don't care because I don't box
2. I'm not a boxer so why would I try to win a fight as one? Why would a boxer try to win as a martial artist when he's not a martial artist?

If hard punching has no relevance then why bring it up?

For your question. You can pretty much box however you want. It isnt judged on looks. You dont have to fight like a boxer.

Now why would a boxer fight like a martial artist? Because he feels he is more successful that way.

 

[drop bear]

Shaken Baby Syndrome, anyone familiar with it? It's when a baby is shaken and it's brain bounces off the skull backwards and forwards causing brain damage usually severe enough to cause haemorrhage and death. This is exactly what happens when you take a head shot., your brain hits the bone of your skull and then hits the other side. It's far from being a laughing matter. I put up the scientific links before this is still scientific but perhaps easier to read for those who think such things are funny.
What Really Happens to Your Brain When You Get Punched in the Head

Says the person who is a referee for a combat sport.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If hard punching has no relevance then why bring it up?

For your question. You can pretty much box however you want. It isnt judged on looks. You dont have to fight like a boxer.

Now why would a boxer fight like a martial artist? Because he feels he is more successful that way.

Here are my original comments about hitting hard from post #113 Notice my comment in red. It talks about the intensity at which they are trying to hit each other's head. Which reflects back to the damage that the head is taking. You can clearly see and hear in both videos the impact of the glove as it hits the head. You can see how many times the head is absorbing the strike even when they hid being the gloves. This is the danger that Tez3 has been speaking of.
"The way that they go at each others head wouldn't be allowed in my school. Three's no reason why they should be trying to knock each others heads off."

My comments in the blue was to highlight the difference between out students at my school spar vs how they were sparring in the video. For sparring at my school, we can't throw punches with the same intensity because of how we generate power and that even our weakest punches come in with a lot of force. I literally can punch very hard without having to really punch with my arm. It's like the same effort it takes to reach for a glass of water but landing with power.
There's nothing magic about it. Give it a try. Hold your arm out straight then launch your entire body weight so that your fist collides with the target. What you will notice is that you can ram your fist into the target without punching. It will feel as hard as a punch but in reality you didn't punch.
Bruce Lee demonstrated this ability with his famous 1 inch and 6 inch punch. That force that he generated didn't come from doing a boxing swing. Now add the force of a punch to this technique and the power of the punch multiplies. Now imagine that hitting your head multiple times as shown in the video. This should make it clear of the damage to the head that it causes. This is the focus of my comments. I used boxing videos because I know boxers take numerous impacts to the head
"The way that we throw our punches utilized the weight of our body, we don't just punch with our arms so even our weakest punches are coming in with significant force when we connect our body to the punch. I think other martial arts have a similar challenge where there's no way they can spar like these kids were sparring an not hurt someone regardless of if they have headgear on or not."

 

[drop bear]

Here are my original comments about hitting hard from post #113 Notice my comment in red. It talks about the intensity at which they are trying to hit each other's head. Which reflects back to the damage that the head is taking. You can clearly see and hear in both videos the impact of the glove as it hits the head. You can see how many times the head is absorbing the strike even when they hid being the gloves. This is the danger that Tez3 has been speaking of.
"The way that they go at each others head wouldn't be allowed in my school. Three's no reason why they should be trying to knock each others heads off."

My comments in the blue was to highlight the difference between out students at my school spar vs how they were sparring in the video. For sparring at my school, we can't throw punches with the same intensity because of how we generate power and that even our weakest punches come in with a lot of force. I literally can punch very hard without having to really punch with my arm. It's like the same effort it takes to reach for a glass of water but landing with power.
There's nothing magic about it. Give it a try. Hold your arm out straight then launch your entire body weight so that your fist collides with the target. What you will notice is that you can ram your fist into the target without punching. It will feel as hard as a punch but in reality you didn't punch.
Bruce Lee demonstrated this ability with his famous 1 inch and 6 inch punch. That force that he generated didn't come from doing a boxing swing. Now add the force of a punch to this technique and the power of the punch multiplies. Now imagine that hitting your head multiple times as shown in the video. This should make it clear of the damage to the head that it causes. This is the focus of my comments. I used boxing videos because I know boxers take numerous impacts to the head
"The way that we throw our punches utilized the weight of our body, we don't just punch with our arms so even our weakest punches are coming in with significant force when we connect our body to the punch. I think other martial arts have a similar challenge where there's no way they can spar like these kids were sparring an not hurt someone regardless of if they have headgear on or not."

Dont know. Boxing ranges from being able to hit lightly to hitting hard.

If you have that issue start slow and work up to high intensity.

I dont think you punch harder than anybody else who does it for a living.

 

[Tez3]

Sometimes you gotta step back and let people do to themselves what they will.

You can't idiot-proof the world.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, that's why I said before that we have to decide for ourselves what we are willing to risk, however no one should be ridiculed or called names because of the decision they make. Deciding not to do something doesn't mean they are afraid to do it or that they can't, merely that they don't want to.

Sparring to 'knock each other's block's off' isn't an indication of superior skill or spirit, it's just sparring to knock each other's block off.

 

[crazydiamond]

I don't have the experience yet, but again for me taking my martial art (a mixed martial art) for self defense...I appreciate the boxing parts of my art. As my instructor has mentioned that (old school punching) is most likely whats going to happen in the street.

Back to punching sparing concerns - I don't think I am going to condition my ability to take a hit to the head - but somewhat I am . I think to an extent everyone has a different jaw (ability to handle a punch). As a newbie -this has been about overcoming fear and feeling like I am not going to "shut down" or crumble completely if someone starts throwing punches. Most of our regular class does not show up for sparing class out of fear they are going to get clocked. I get that completely. But I am not interested in taking this too far, I will never compete at my age, and not looking for a bar fight, its just for me about "enough" contact during sparing to get some muscle memory and emotional response conditioning and learn to defend better and control distance. I think developmental sparing helps with this objective.

Thankfully I am in a Mixed martial art system and sparing class this week is stick fighting - and there I get to wear a helmet with no worries. next week it will probably be some grappling.

 

[Paul_D]

As my instructor has mentioned that (old school punching) is most likely whats going to happen in the street.
/QUOTE]
It has to be born in mind though the damage that you can do to your hand, punch the head. It's no good taking out the first guy and then yo have to deal with his mates with a broken hand. I train heel palm for head strikes.