Sparring

[Ironbear24]

Sorry but I personally don't believe that flashing mace or thundering hammers could kill someone. Thundering hammers is mainly attacks to the body and the knees and flashing mace uses a hammerfist and a back knuckle to the head. Those techniques may hurt a lot but I very very much doubt you could kill someone with those 2. Kenpo does have killing techniques backbreaker, leap of death etc but those 2 you listed probably won't

A hammer fist to the back of the neck can kill someone because it can sever the connection to the brain.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is just routine hard sparring at a Boxing gym. A lot of people in here always gets pissy when I told them that sparring for KO's doesn't just exist, but regularly (just not always or even mostly). There's light to medium sparring too that's happening regularly.



So you think Boxers aren't doing the same thing. You think Boxers don't understand hip rotation, pivoting, shifting weight, and even the use of the shoulders to punch harder and faster? Mayweather made $180,000,000 for one fight and Pacquaio $120,000,000 for losing. You think with that much money on the line, tens of millions of dollars in resources and decades of developing a craft of a multi-billion dollar sport....and not to mention Worldwide fame and glory..... that they wouldn't be able to figure out what you know at your school in a strip mall? When was the last time that a TMA event paid over $20,000 for one fighter and the event was held in a real stadium and not some hotel ballroom?



You seem to think that there's some special powers that TMA's have that's completely unknown to Boxers and other sports fighter such as MMA. Even if most UFC fighters aren't even making 1/36,000th of what Mayweather's making for a fight, you think we don't know about techniques?

No, the problem with most other martial arts, meaning most of the TMA ones, is that you never spar this hard so you think it's Mortal Kombat 1, 2 and 3 or something when you see it. To put it bluntly, you're scared of it. You think people may die or something. But this is standard practice for fighting gyms and fighters. Not all who trains at such gyms, go this hard though, usually only the fighters or those who want to, would go this hard.

This is a really bizarre post.

 

[drop bear]

A hammer fist to the back of the neck can kill someone because it can sever the connection to the brain.

A standard punch in the head has killed people.

 

[drop bear]

Why are you so upset? Calm down. In TMA we do spar very hard, but keep in mind we cannot do this all of the time because that would simply be unrealistic, many people in TMA wish to strive to become professional fighters and it would make zero sense to risk injurying yourself to such an extent (because accidents can and will happen).

That you have to put a halt in your training to recover from well, TRAINING. Many of us also do not like to use gear, this means if we go full contact, yes believe it or not. People could end up dead or seriously hurt, we train with no gear because gear is not going to be with you in a street fight.

Now sparring for the sake of training for sport is of course different, there are rules there to keep in mind and one of those rules is don't go full force, that applies to competitions too, they don't want you going full force even there.

They want people going full force in our competitions.

 

[Ironbear24]

That's never going to happen. Competition is for sport, not to try and kill eachother. If they want full force then start your own underground kumite where the goal is to kill your opponent. Otherwise it will never happen. Even in "UFC" they do not use their full power and have respect for their opponents.

 

[FriedRice]

Why are you so upset? Calm down.

Are you that sensitive to think that I was getting upset? You should take your own advice.

In TMA we do spar very hard, but keep in mind we cannot do this all of the time because that would simply be unrealistic, many people in TMA wish to strive to become professional fighters and it would make zero sense to risk injurying yourself to such an extent (because accidents can and will happen).

Show me where I said that no TMA ever sparred hard or that sparring hard should be "all the time".

That you have to put a halt in your training to recover from well, TRAINING. Many of us also do not like to use gear, this means if we go full contact, yes believe it or not. People could end up dead or seriously hurt, we train with no gear because gear is not going to be with you in a street fight.

I guess you haven't fought in the street nor the ring/cage much, if at all. MMA fighters understands the concept of not taking injuries more than you would, because we sometimes go hard while you don't. MMA gloves is hardly anything, and we wear a cup and mouthguard in fights, that's it. Most TMA spar with a full Dog-Bite training suit on, and you still don't go hard. What's the different with you fighting in the street vs. an MMA fighter fighting in the street? You think we have no idea what to do w/o any gloves on?

 

[FriedRice]

This statement right here tells me that you don't understand what I'm referring. I don't pivot on the ball of my foot to generate power. I don't don't rotate my hip to generate power, I use my waist. I also don't use my shoulder to punch harder and faster. So to answer your question no I don't think the majority of boxers are doing the same thing.

You're right, Boxers are doing it way better than you are with their techniques if all you're using is your waist.

And yet know one who has sparred against me and has gotten a weak punch from me has any doubt that I have more power than what I'm giving and to this day no one has ever asked me to to hit them harder than those punches that came in solid.

I guess this would depend on who you spar against.

 

[FriedRice]

That's never going to happen. Competition is for sport, not to try and kill eachother. If they want full force then start your own underground kumite where the goal is to kill your opponent. Otherwise it will never happen. Even in "UFC" they do not use their full power and have respect for their opponents.

Oh LMAO......so with tens of millions of $$$$$$ and worldwide fame and glory on the line.....UFC fighters are really holding back all this time? Then there's Mayweather who fought for $180,000,000 and Pacquaio for $120,000,000 for their ONE fight. You must train with Tex.

 

[Ironbear24]

No I haven't been in many street fights and I take pride in that. That is a sign of me being a responsible adult and not someone who goes around acting all huffy and puffy.

I have only been in 2 street fights and they all ended in less than 30 seconds because I am striking full force. No gear. No protection padding and no holding back. I have not fought in a cage because my matches have been in a ring and no we did not wear a dog bite uniform, just gloves, not boxing gloves but very lightweight ones with open fingers for grappling.

Some headgear and a mouthpiece. That's it. Think outside of the octagon, because you are not some superior martial artist because you but yourself in one. You are seriously asking me what the difference would be in a street fight vs mma?

Well for one if you drop gaurd, there are no rules prohibiting your opponent from jumping onto you with his full body weight or slamming the ball of his foot into your nuts. There are no rules to protect you against getting hit in the throat or your neck which would kill you.

Further more you seem to be contradicting your own statements because you say " when did I say TMA doesn't go hard?"

Then you say "we in mma go hard when you don't" so which is it then? Are you saying mma goes hard and TMA does not or are you saying they both do? Because you can't exactly claim both statements.

 

[Ironbear24]

Oh LMAO......so with tens of millions of $$$$$$ and worldwide fame and glory on the line.....UFC fighters are really holding back all this time? Then there's Mayweather who fought for $180,000,000 and Pacquaio for $120,000,000 for their ONE fight. You must train with Tex.

Believe it or not they do, imagine what would happen if someone died? How would this affect the fighters reputation? Further more if they were not holding back then the fights would no way in hell last multiple rounds like they do. People would be out cold within a couple clean hits the head, doesn't matter who you are.

Biology is biology and science is science no matter who you are. We are all made the same and an 800 psi punch to the side of the head is going to rattle your brain and knock you the hell out, or worse.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think the fact that FriedRice finds medical research 'funny' and is still chucking out insults about posters here says more about his seriousness and willingness to discuss a subject which has potential medical concerns for many martial artists and sportsmen.

I'm always surprised how many people underestimate the power behind a martial artist's punch.

You're right, Boxers are doing it way better than you are with their techniques if all you're using is your waist.



I guess this would depend on who you spar against.

A hard hit to the head is a hard hit to the head regardless of who is doing it or receiving it. You can't condition your face

 

[Ironbear24]

I'm always surprised how many people underestimate the power behind a martial artist's punch.

A hard hit to the head is a hard hit to the head regardless of who is doing it or receiving it. You can't condition your face

This what I always tell people who are new and think big muscle guys will always win fights. I myself am pretty big and muscular, but guess what? My face doesn't have those muscles and is just as vulnerable and is a weak point just like any one else's face.

 

[drop bear]

That's never going to happen. Competition is for sport, not to try and kill eachother. If they want full force then start your own underground kumite where the goal is to kill your opponent. Otherwise it will never happen. Even in "UFC" they do not use their full power and have respect for their opponents.

What do you mean full power? For me that is defined as punching the guy as hard as you can as often as you can untill someone has to drag you off them. Then give the guy a hug.

 

[drop bear]

A hard hit to the head is a hard hit to the head regardless of who is doing it or receiving it. You can't condition your face

You actually sort of can. Head movement is a component of the damage you recieve. And that can be controlled with position and neck strength.

 

[Ironbear24]

What do you mean full power? For me that is defined as punching the guy as hard as you can as often as you can untill someone has to drag you off them. Then give the guy a hug.

Fighting with the intent to kill them. What you explain is not that and is respectable fighting for sport.

 

[Ironbear24]

You actually sort of can. Head movement is a component of the damage you recieve. And that can be controlled with position and neck strength.

More or less yeah but it won't make that huge of a difference. A clean hit with a good follow through is going to do some damage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Boxers are doing it way better than you are with their techniques if all you're using is your waist.

Here's what I use when I generate my punch. Force from pushing from by back leg + Force from Forward movement from the push from my leg (a minimum it's 200lbs of force) + Force of twisting from my waist + Force from arms = My Punch. If I time my punch or pull my opponent into me then you can add + Force of me pulling my towards my fist.

You are right that there's nothing magical about Kung Fu but there's a lot of mechanics and "Force Multipliers" that are in martial arts that aren't in boxing.

 

[drop bear]

Fighting with the intent to kill them. What you explain is not that and is respectable fighting for sport.

You dont fight anyone with the intent to kill them. You are supposed to be trying to stop them.

Otherwise intent to kill is a very superficial concept. To misquote rocky.

"it is not how hard you hit that is important. It is how hard you get hit and keep moving forwards. That's how winning is done. "

 

[Flying Crane]

Here's what I use when I generate my punch. Force from pushing from by back leg + Force from Forward movement from the push from my leg (a minimum it's 200lbs of force) + Force of twisting from my waist + Force from arms = My Punch. If I time my punch or pull my opponent into me then you can add + Force of me pulling my towards my fist.

You are right that there's nothing magical about Kung Fu but there's a lot of mechanics and "Force Multipliers" that are in martial arts that aren't in boxing.

I don't know what is or is not in a boxers punch. I only know what is in mine and I'm satisfied with that.

I've seen boxing footage that has left me unimpressed in terms of punching mechanics, yet as athletes they can certainly be effective with their punching.

I'm not an athlete of that same caliber as a top rated boxer. Not by a long shot. But the mechanics I use in punching still give me the tools to hit really hard. So what I have works well for me, regardless of what others have and how well it works for them. Those are independent issues. The one does not affect the other. How powerfully I can hit, using my methodology, in no way affects how powerfully someone else can hit using their methodology. The one does not cancel out the other. All I really care about is how well my stuff works for me. And I don't much care what others might think of it.

I think it's important to not forget these issues. Otherwise the discussion devolves back into arguing over who has the biggest dick.

On that note, have I mentioned how big mine is? I'd like to show it to you all... <unzips>

 

[Ironbear24]

You dont fight anyone with the intent to kill them. You are supposed to be trying to stop them.

Otherwise intent to kill is a very superficial concept. To misquote rocky.

"it is not how hard you hit that is important. It is how hard you get hit and keep moving forwards. That's how winning is done. "

That's my point. Sane people don't go into any competition thinking I'm going to kill this s.o.b you fight with the intent to down them not kill them.