Sparring Women

[Anarax]

Over the years I've sparred many women. Just about all of them were respectful and great martial artists. However; there are those few that wish to take things up a few notches, which I'm all for. The problem lies in their urge to want to up the intensity but when you increases intensity they say it isn't fair.

One example I had was with a Tae Kwon Do black belt that started taking a Karate class that I recently started. I was only a white belt, but I had previous training from other systems that she wasn't aware of. The round starts and she has great speed and technique, but telegraphs every kick. She had very little to no hand skills and was dropping them on every kick. I'm able to check almost everything she throws at me, so I counter attack with very little power. She starts to kick harder but now she's telegraphing even worse than before. I decided to up my striking power to match her own. We wear headgear in sparring and are discouraged from striking the face, only the headgear. She winds up her kick and begins to throw it, I check it as a I deliver a firm strike to her headgear. I feel her getting angrier as she starts kicking harder. I'm able to land the same counter on her multiple times. She eventually loses all composure and tells me I'm hitting to hard. She tells the instructor and he tells both of us to ease up. I was disgusted by her attitude and the lack of discipline a black belt from another system had.

I didn't walk away with any regrets given I just responded to what was thrown at me. I'm curious if anyone else has had a similar experience? Or how they would have handled that situation?

 

[Tez3]

That's not about sparring women it's about sparring a person who was an idiot. It has nothing to do with gender.

 

[Buka]

Apologies in advance, bro, I do not mean to nitpick nor cherry pick, that is not my intent - but yet, I do it anyway. But merely to point out something that should help. Your second sentence - "Just about all of them were respectful and great martial artists."

No, they aren't, actually, they aren't even close. What's described isn't really respectful, not even if we stretch it with forgiving and open imaginations. And as for "great", c'mon now, my brother.

You should get out there and go find some great ones. And ask them the same questions as your post. Then bring them to your school and have them work with the gals. It will change everything.

 

[Anarax]

That's not about sparring women it's about sparring a person who was an idiot. It has nothing to do with gender.

Unfortunately it does. Granted there are "idiots" as you put it, from both sexes. What I was differentiating was the standard of black belts and training when it comes to the sexes. A lot of dojos don't even let men and women spar eachother. However; a lot of the dojos that due don't pressure the females in sparring as much. There are dojos that train them as they would a man, but many times that's not the case. I have no doubt she came from a school that the male students let her beat up on them. How else could she have achieved the rank of black belt unless she was given a pass. Maybe I should have titled my thread differently, but there is a problem with double standards when it comes to the sexes in martial arts. The only people it's harming is women themselves.

 

[Anarax]

Apologies in advance, bro, I do not mean to nitpick nor cherry pick, that is not my intent - but yet, I do it anyway. But merely to point out something that should help. Your second sentence - "Just about all of them were respectful and great martial artists."

No, they aren't, actually, they aren't even close. What's described isn't really respectful, not even if we stretch it with forgiving and open imaginations. And as for "great", c'mon now, my brother.

You should get out there and go find some great ones. And ask them the same questions as your post. Then bring them to your school and have them work with the gals. It will change everything.

The example I have was a contrasting exception to my opening statement. I know full and well that Black Belt was neither great not respectful. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Headhunter]

I posted something similar recently noting that a 12 year old girl and an older were throwing harder shots because they knew they weren't going to get hit back and of course that doesn't apply to all women but when I spar women I spar them with the same mentality as I'd spar with a man. Because In both cases I'm not trying to hurt them. The only time I'd lighten up is if it was a younger student (e.g teenager) or a complete beginner but again I'd do the same if it was a boy in those situations.

Oh and be careful a certain someone is probably now going to say you're scared of girls now

 

[Headhunter]

Unfortunately it does. Granted there are "idiots" as you put it, from both sexes. What I was differentiating was the standard of black belts and training when it comes to the sexes. A lot of dojos don't even let men and women spar eachother. However; a lot of the dojos that due don't pressure the females in sparring as much. There are dojos that train them as they would a man, but many times that's not the case. I have no doubt she came from a school that the male students let her beat up on them. How else could she have achieved the rank of black belt unless she was given a pass. Maybe I should have titled my thread differently, but there is a problem with double standards when it comes to the sexes in martial arts. The only people it's harming is women themselves.

Sorry but I completely disagree there. Yeah there's probably a few bad clubs who do this but most I've seen women spar the men and any woman black belt is just as good as a male black belt. Heck in my gym there's women who are European champions who are excellent fighters.

Now I'm not the type who'll cry sexist at any little thing but frankly your post does seem to have a bit of sexism in it

 

[Tez3]

The example I have was a contrasting exception to my opening statement. I know full and well that Black Belt was neither great not respectful. Sorry for the confusion

Unfortunately it does. Granted there are "idiots" as you put it, from both sexes. What I was differentiating was the standard of black belts and training when it comes to the sexes. A lot of dojos don't even let men and women spar eachother. However; a lot of the dojos that due don't pressure the females in sparring as much. There are dojos that train them as they would a man, but many times that's not the case. I have no doubt she came from a school that the male students let her beat up on them. How else could she have achieved the rank of black belt unless she was given a pass. Maybe I should have titled my thread differently, but there is a problem with double standards when it comes to the sexes in martial arts. The only people it's harming is women themselves.

I think your experiences differ very much from mine, every dojo, gym and class I've ever seen has been mixed allowing men and women to spar against each other, even the MMA ones. It's beneficial for both. I also haven't seen any difference in standards because men and women train together, are tested the same and yes do pressure them. I haven't seen any place that allows the females to beat up the men, why would they? Are the places you seen this happen, I assume you've seen it rather than have just heard about this happening, local to you, countrywide or what? I'm sorry to disagree with you but as I said I've have come across this before, in fact what I've seen is the opposite, males often being rougher on women than other males. Often this is 'justified' by saying it's for their own good.
I wouldn't say there is a problem with double standards in martial arts, many men do feel diffident about sparring with a woman but not to the extent they'd allow a woman to beat them up. I've found places that don't spar hard or do points/no touch sparring for anyone to be more troubling, as I say the norm for most places I've been to is that sparring is done to the standard of the lower grade, the grade being the important decider on the percentage of power used not the gender.

 

[Headhunter]

Another thing here is she was throwing hard kicks okay but you were hitting to the head and obviously hitting hard to the head is more dangerous than hitting to the body so there's that and frankly I don't believe the situation is based on gender. You hear about this is all forms of life someone gives but they can't take that happens in martial arts, in school yard pranks, in cristism at work and it happens with males and females and yeah sure that's a sucky situation you were in but I don't believe it's got anything to do with gender that could easily have happened with a guy or a girl

 

[Anarax]

Sorry but I completely disagree there. Yeah there's probably a few bad clubs who do this but most I've seen women spar the men and any woman black belt is just as good as a male black belt. Heck in my gym there's women who are European champions who are excellent fighters.

Now I'm not the type who'll cry sexist at any little thing but frankly your post does seem to have a bit of sexism in it

The problem with taking it lightly on women is a failing of the instructors and students, not the women. Most of them probably aren't even aware of the sub-par training they're receiving. Instilling in them a false self-confidence that they can defeat a man is dangerous. Not that a woman can't defeat a man, but those that can't will be in for a rude awakening. If people haven't seen this themselves, that doesn't change the fact it does occur. It's not sexist, it's just reality

 

[Anarax]

Another thing here is she was throwing hard kicks okay but you were hitting to the head and obviously hitting hard to the head is more dangerous than hitting to the body so there's that and frankly I don't believe the situation is based on gender. You hear about this is all forms of life someone gives but they can't take that happens in martial arts, in school yard pranks, in cristism at work and it happens with males and females and yeah sure that's a sucky situation you were in but I don't believe it's got anything to do with gender that could easily have happened with a guy or a girl

Where did I say she was only kicking me in the body? She was trying to kick me in the head too

 

[Tez3]

The problem with taking it lightly on women is a failing of the instructors and students, not the women. Most of them probably aren't even aware of the sub-par training they're receiving. Instilling in them a false self-confidence that they can defeat a man is dangerous. Not that a woman can't defeat a man, but those that can't will be in for a rude awakening. If people haven't seen this themselves, that doesn't change the fact it does occur. It's not sexist, it's just reality

Ok, who is taking it easy on women? have you proof this is happening or is this what you've been told or you are surmising based on a couple of experiences you've had? How do you know they are receiving poor training? Who says these women have a false self confidence? You are speaking as if you know this to be a fact but aren't saying how you know it is. Could it actually be that this woman annoyed you therefore you think all women are badly trained?

 

[Headhunter]

The problem with taking it lightly on women is a failing of the instructors and students, not the women. Most of them probably aren't even aware of the sub-par training they're receiving. Instilling in them a false self-confidence that they can defeat a man is dangerous. Not that a woman can't defeat a man, but those that can't will be in for a rude awakening. If people haven't seen this themselves, that doesn't change the fact it does occur. It's not sexist, it's just reality

Frankly how do you know what that woman has and hasn't done in her training. Did you speak to her did she tell you this or is it just baseless assumption? She may frankly just not be a talented fighter. You say she's a taekwondo black belt well maybe she's great at her forms and great at doing the kicks in the air and on the pads and does great self defence 1 step techniques but she just struggle in her sparring. I've seen plenty of people like that there's no shame in it we can't all be amazing at everything and yeah sure some guys may go lighter on women heck I've probably been guilty of it a few times but okay say a guy throws lighter shots? So what you seem to think that heavy sparring is needed to he good you can still spar with small amounts of power and throw them at speed.

 

[Anarax]

Frankly how do you know what that woman has and hasn't done in her training. Did you speak to her did she tell you this or is it just baseless assumption? She may frankly just not be a talented fighter. You say she's a taekwondo black belt well maybe she's great at her forms and great at doing the kicks in the air and on the pads and does great self defence 1 step techniques but she just struggle in her sparring. I've seen plenty of people like that there's no shame in it we can't all be amazing at everything and yeah sure some guys may go lighter on women heck I've probably been guilty of it a few times but okay say a guy throws lighter shots? So what you seem to think that heavy sparring is needed to he good you can still spar with small amounts of power and throw them at speed.

She made the point to tell everyone in class she's a "fighter" and is "amazing" at sparring. She also shared with us the hard training she received at her previous school.

 

[Headhunter]

She made the point to tell everyone in class she's a "fighter" and is "amazing" at sparring. She also shared with us the hard training she received at her previous school.

Hard training? What does hard training mean...that could mean anything. It could mean they did a lot of press ups and cardio work, it could mean they ran their forms hundreds of times a night.

Also maybe she is good under taekwondo rules but I'm assuming this is a different style and again I doubt it's anything to do with gender. A lot of taekwondo people have that issue with their hands being low.

Tbh this is starting to sound like you're just pissed off you got told off. Suck it up move on.

Look this girl doesn't sound like a nice person. Yeah that happens but i think it's unfair to label all women martial artists on one sparring session that upset you

 

[Anarax]

Ok, who is taking it easy on women? have you proof this is happening or is this what you've been told or you are surmising based on a couple of experiences you've had? How do you know they are receiving poor training? Who says these women have a false self confidence? You are speaking as if you know this to be a fact but aren't saying how you know it is. Could it actually be that this woman annoyed you therefore you think all women are badly trained?

I obviously think that, hence my opening statement saying almost all are respectful and great martial artists. Read first, then respond is the usual order. I've sparred many women and have had great experiences with them. Yes I was annoyed by checking her kicks and countering her, then her breaking down in front of everyone. That sound annoying for me?

 

[Headhunter]

Ok, who is taking it easy on women? have you proof this is happening or is this what you've been told or you are surmising based on a couple of experiences you've had? How do you know they are receiving poor training? Who says these women have a false self confidence? You are speaking as if you know this to be a fact but aren't saying how you know it is. Could it actually be that this woman annoyed you therefore you think all women are badly trained?

This is happening a lot lately people thinking they know what's the truth with 0 actual proof.

 

[Headhunter]

I obviously think that, hence my opening statement saying almost all are respectful and great martial artists. Read first, then respond is the usual order. I've sparred many women and have had great experiences with them. Yes I was annoyed by checking her kicks and countering her, then her breaking down in front of everyone. That sound annoying for me?

Yeah you said that but then contradict yourself saying women aren't getting trained properly. And yeah it's annoying but that's life get over it, toughen up. There's more important things to worry about than an annoying sparring session

 

[Anarax]

Hard training? What does hard training mean...that could mean anything. It could mean they did a lot of press ups and cardio work, it could mean they ran their forms hundreds of times a night.


Also maybe she is good under taekwondo rules but I'm assuming this is a different style and again I doubt it's anything to do with gender. A lot of taekwondo people have that issue with their hands being low.

Tbh this is starting to sound like you're just pissed off you got told off. Suck it up move on.

Look this girl doesn't sound like a nice person. Yeah that happens but i think it's unfair to label all women martial artists on one sparring session that upset you

Told off? I was never told off. Tbh, this thread was supposed to open the forum up for discussion about similar experiences. However; people just want to bring emotion into it and get offended. Sounds like you need to look at situations more objectively and check your emotion and sensitivity at the door

 

[Tez3]

Also maybe she is good under taekwondo rules

and why was she wearing a TKD black belt in a karate class?

You get people who think they are greater than they are, you get boasters, it's life. It's not a gender issue but one of someone thinking they are something they'd aren't or are actually far less self confident than they want you to think, again not a gender thing. Actually the OP made a point of telling us that he wasn't a beginner actually though he was a white belt in karate, and had lots of experience so........

There's always the issue of course of how hard is too hard, one person's hard maybe another's well that wasn't very hard! Again though the OP made a point of matching her 'hardness', why? Would it have been difficult to say look let's calm this down a bit or would that seem like giving in to a woman? if a white belt is sparring a black belt, regardless of gender one goes at the pace and force that a white belt can take, not too easy but just enough to challenge the white belt. The black belt has more experience, more control. If they are coming on too hard then stop you don't escalate it.

I also bet I've sparred with more men who go harder than women, I've sparred with more men than women for whom sparring with women is a problem for their egos, this is in karate and grappling.