Somali Pirates

[Archangel M]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia_fighting_pirates

U.S. warships watched a hijacked vessel laden with tanks while other gunboats patrolled the dangerous waters off Somalia, but pirates still seized another freighter this week — and now hold about a dozen despite the international effort to protect a major shipping lane.
Military vessels from 10 nations are now converging on the world's most dangerous waters, but analysts and a Somali government official say the campaign won't halt piracy unless it also confronts with the quagmire that is Somalia.

Im wonder how long its going to be before commercial shipping companies start hiring contractors for security and mounting crew served weapons?

I also wonder..how the hell do these guys get from the little dinghys to the decks of these superships uncontested? Its not like they can swing over from the masts of their tall sail ships.

 

[Archangel M]

"World powers have neglected Somalia for years on end, and now its problems are touching the world, they have started on the wrong footing," said Bile Mohamoud Qabowsade, adviser to the president of Puntland, the semi-autonomous Somali region that is the pirates' base.

So to tie into another thread regarding US interventalism...do we get involved? Or do we just leave them alone and do our best to protect the shipping lanes? US ships only?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I believe the last time the US tried to get involved in Somalia, it lead to US troops being hung like sides of beef while crowds cheered. If they go in again, lets hope the mission commanders prepare properly this time.

As to the pirates, I believe they threaten to use rockets and RPG's on the ships unless they surrender. A few ships are mounting sonic and other NF weapons to discourage them from close approach, but military escorts might be the short term solution.

 

[Archangel M]

We wont be able to take control of that quagmire without "invading", locking everything down with martial law, and searching for every weapons cache we can find; and thats just to start. Our "soft sell" "humanitarian warfare" in the 90's plain didnt work. And with what we have on our plate already I dont see it happening. Just pumping in aid wont work either as our last jaunt there showed.

Fund another African nation to do it and were going to get accused of all sorts of evils.

We didnt do what we should have done in Iraq (my amature military opinion), I dont see us having much luck in Somalia unless...well I reserve my opinion on that cause it would just start an argument.

 

[Archangel M]

As to the pirates, I believe they threaten to use rockets and RPG's on the ships unless they surrender. A few ships are mounting sonic and other NF weapons to discourage them from close approach, but military escorts might be the short term solution.

Youre probably right. Mounting some "big toys" on the decks could help too.

 

[Makalakumu]

Here's a question...and it might be deep enough for another thread. Suppose we let these private ships hire some mercenaries/contractors and the companies start buying high tech weaponry in order to defend their cargo.

1st of all, is this legal? 2nd of all, does this open a Pandoras box of weapons proliferation?

My first instinct is to let the companies arm the ships and put the pirates in Davey Jones Locker. On the other hand, I can see a vast black market in weapons growing even larger, with some of these systems falling into the hands of people who don't like us very much.

 

[Archangel M]

The merchant marines did it.

 

[Makalakumu]

The merchant marines did it.

True, but now we have advanced missile systems, EMP, high energy particle weapons, as well as highly portable gunnery systems that are available to the would be merchant marines. I don't know if we should completely trust some of these companies. What happens if the company goes belly up...what happens to the weapons?

I can see them going to the person who has the most green no matter who that person is.

 

[Archangel M]

Heres an article about the pros and cons:

http://www4.marinelink.com/en-US/News/Article/327958.aspx

 

[Archangel M]

The only other option is military. Do we open yet another can of worms?

I have to wonder. The US has had warships doing their best in the area for a while. How much of the shipping benefits us?

 

[Archangel M]

True, but now we have advanced missile systems, EMP, high energy particle weapons, as well as highly portable gunnery systems that are available to the would be merchant marines. I don't know if we should completely trust some of these companies. What happens if the company goes belly up...what happens to the weapons?

I can see them going to the person who has the most green no matter who that person is.

I dont know, cant the same question apply to these private military contractors overseas? There has to be some sort of regulation, what it is I dont know.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Somalia is I believe one of the largest weapons markets in the world, so the pirates already have access to a huge arsenal. I recall reading that an AK47 is like $7 there.

 

[jarrod]

i'm going to go out on a limb here & suggest that getting involved in another military conflict might not be a good idea right now.

i'm all for private security in this case.

jf

 

[Archangel M]

They have vendors that stamp and assemble them on order in local shops.

 

[MJS]

So to tie into another thread regarding US interventalism...do we get involved? Or do we just leave them alone and do our best to protect the shipping lanes? US ships only?

The only other option is military. Do we open yet another can of worms?

I have to wonder. The US has had warships doing their best in the area for a while. How much of the shipping benefits us?

IMHO, I think that many times we (the USA) stick our nose where it doesn't belong a bit too much. If this is not directly effecting us, then lets mind our own business and stay the hell out of it. Many of these countries don't want us there any way, so lets grant them their wish and stay away.

 

[Big Don]

I believe the last time the US tried to get involved in Somalia, it lead to US troops being hung like sides of beef while crowds cheered. If they go in again, lets hope the mission commanders prepare properly this time.

I don't think the blame can be fairly placed on the mission commanders as much as it can be on the National Command Authority at the time. A friend of mine was in Somalia, he was hand picked as one of the first to go, he had a really special MOS..., when he came back, he told us about the idiot ROE they had over there, i.e., weapons slung across the back, muzzle down, (to not look threatening) The Clinton Administration sent troops wanting to look like good guys and wound up looking like morons because they tied the hands of the troops before they even arrived. Which led to the incidents including those in BlackHawk Down

As to the pirates, I believe they threaten to use rockets and RPG's on the ships unless they surrender. A few ships are mounting sonic and other NF weapons to discourage them from close approach, but military escorts might be the short term solution.

I cannot believe that 1: No one has put this ship on the bottom, or 2: That no special forces team(s) have been sent to retake the ship by force.

 

[Ninjamom]

1. Isn't this a Russian ship that was captured? Isn't this a really black eye for them. Shouldn't they do something to take their ship back, and unless they publicly ask for our help we stay out of this one?

2. As to when/if an American ship is ever attacked/captured by pirate vesels: Isn't that what torpedoes are for?

 

[Twin Fist]

pirates are a serious problem in the less civilized places. When i was on the boat, there were places we went where we kept the .50 cals manned 24/7

 

[MA-Caver]

Where's Captain Nemo's sub the Natulus when you need it?

Yeah I think we should stay out of there as well, but eventually an unwary U.S. ship is going to get hit bad and the general outcry back home will be for Somalian Pirate blood. Our Navy is going to get sucked into it whether we want it to or not.
The good thing is that we do have better capabilities on the sea than we do on land. A single carrier based F-18 can resolve a pirate ship/boat without breaking a sweat.

 

[cdunn]

The only other option is military. Do we open yet another can of worms?

I have to wonder. The US has had warships doing their best in the area for a while. How much of the shipping benefits us?

IMHO, I think that many times we (the USA) stick our nose where it doesn't belong a bit too much. If this is not directly effecting us, then lets mind our own business and stay the hell out of it. Many of these countries don't want us there any way, so lets grant them their wish and stay away.

Across the coast of Somalia is pretty much the only nautical route that the West has to the Middle East.