Fighting Pirates with Mercenaries - TOLD YOU!

[cdunn]

Part VII Article100
Anyone that disagrees with suppression of piracy, is acting contrary to the Law of the Sea. That would seem to indicate we could LEGALLY use the US Navy, and perhaps a MEU and seize what the pirates have, and disburse it as we see fit.

Yes, so long as the disbursal is done by standing law. You can put all the destroyers and cruisers you want in the ocean to hunt pirates. Be prepared to pay about 35-50 million per year per ship, plus fuel, salary, ammunition, and combat benefits. What you can't do is... issue letters of marque and start up your own piracy operation to prey on the pirates.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Again, the issue is that it is inefficient and ineffective to search for small pirate skiffs with gigantic US Navy vessels; not that it should not be done.

Scenario 1: Here's a big huge ocean. Go search for little boats that might or might not contain pirates. Good luck.
Scenario 2: The pirates are after only one thing - cargo vessels. Put armed guards on the cargo vessels.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R40528.pdf

This is pure logistics. I do not understand how anyone could possibly think you could effectively patrol 242,000 square miles of ocean where pirate activity occurs with a small contingent of our Navy, as opposed to putting security forces where the pirates will always attack. Why look for them when they will ALWAYS come to you?

 

[cdunn]

Again, the issue is that it is inefficient and ineffective to search for small pirate skiffs with gigantic US Navy vessels; not that it should not be done.

Scenario 1: Here's a big huge ocean. Go search for little boats that might or might not contain pirates. Good luck.
Scenario 2: The pirates are after only one thing - cargo vessels. Put armed guards on the cargo vessels.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R40528.pdf

This is pure logistics. I do not understand how anyone could possibly think you could effectively patrol 242,000 square miles of ocean where pirate activity occurs with a small contingent of our Navy, as opposed to putting security forces where the pirates will always attack. Why look for them when they will ALWAYS come to you?

Well, I thought the issue at hand was that there are people out there we have to extract terrible, terrible vengance on! Bad people have to suffer hideously, and actually protecting the merchantmen is a secondary consideration.

The actual "best" solution to the problem is a strong Somali government rooting them out at the shoreline, and wiping out the economics that makes it a preferable "career".

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well, I thought the issue at hand was that there are people out there we have to extract terrible, terrible vengance on! Bad people have to suffer hideously, and actually protecting the merchantmen is a secondary consideration.

I certainly have no problem sending pirates to Davy Jones' locker. But you have to catch them first, and since they come to the ships, it seems simple and reasonable to wait for them to come to you so you can shoot them and sink their boats. Not rocket science.

The actual "best" solution to the problem is a strong Somali government rooting them out at the shoreline, and wiping out the economics that makes it a preferable "career".

Small unit tactics. This type of situation resembles an ambush. There are many ways to avoid an ambush or to win an encounter. The first is, as you have said, eliminate the source. They come from the Somali coast. But as you note, the Somali government is weak - practically non-existent to be honest - and they cannot control their own port security. Nor do we have the manpower to patrol the coast of the entire nation; small boats can launch from practically anywhere, you're not talking about deep-water ports here. If you can't stop an ambush at the source, you can plot their route and ambush them instead. The problem with that is that we're talking about water here. No natural terrain, no route they must take in order to reach you. It would still be worth putting some thumbtacks in maps to determine point of origin and point of contact for as many attacks as possible; if a pattern emerges, then an ambush at that site would be a lovely use of a small US Navy vessel. However, barring that, the best thing to do is to know you're going to be ambushed and be ready so that you're not surprised when it happens.

In the more general sense, Somalia is a strategic issue for us, but we've been badly burned there. The Al-Shabab Islamist movement has linked up with AQ (as I said they would too) and is now in control of major segments of the country. They offer the Somalis a choice that many are glad to take - they wipe out the warlords in exchange for conversion to Islam and agreeing to follow Sharia law. Remember this; no matter how bad Islamists are, they bring peace to the nations they conquer. Not freedom, not the kind of society most of us would want to live in, but peace, because the destroy anyone and anything that disagrees with them. When you're living in a war-torn and starving nation, peace may seem preferable, even if you lose your freedom (which most of them don't have anyway). We have limited influence with the Somali government, but mostly, we've ignored them. We do so at our own peril; not just because Somalia is a haven for pirates, but because it will also soon be another Afghanistan, a haven for terrorists-in-training. With Al-Shabab all chummy with AQ, we've got storm clouds on the horizon. I have said this before; no one listens. We'll listen when we're attacked by terrorists trained in Somalia, and then it will be "Why didn't we do anything about it if we knew?" Mainly because we're idiots, that's why.

 

[Twin Fist]

hell, a few .50 cal mounts will take care of the problem....and they come in remotely operated versions now i think

 

[Big Don]

hell, a few .50 cal mounts will take care of the problem....and they come in remotely operated versions now i think

A bunch of rednecks with shotguns, a few kegs of beer and your problem would be solved for the price of beer and ammo...

 

[Carol]

A bunch of rednecks with shotguns, a few kegs of beer and your problem would be solved for the price of beer and ammo...

Rednecks at sea????

I think that just sent my brain in to a state of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Big Don]

Rednecks at sea????

I think that just sent my brain in to a state of cognitive dissonance.

*cough* Jarheads *cough* same thing

 

[cdunn]

I certainly have no problem sending pirates to Davy Jones' locker. But you have to catch them first, and since they come to the ships, it seems simple and reasonable to wait for them to come to you so you can shoot them and sink their boats. Not rocket science.



Small unit tactics. This type of situation resembles an ambush. There are many ways to avoid an ambush or to win an encounter. The first is, as you have said, eliminate the source. They come from the Somali coast. But as you note, the Somali government is weak - practically non-existent to be honest - and they cannot control their own port security. Nor do we have the manpower to patrol the coast of the entire nation; small boats can launch from practically anywhere, you're not talking about deep-water ports here. If you can't stop an ambush at the source, you can plot their route and ambush them instead. The problem with that is that we're talking about water here. No natural terrain, no route they must take in order to reach you. It would still be worth putting some thumbtacks in maps to determine point of origin and point of contact for as many attacks as possible; if a pattern emerges, then an ambush at that site would be a lovely use of a small US Navy vessel. However, barring that, the best thing to do is to know you're going to be ambushed and be ready so that you're not surprised when it happens.

In the more general sense, Somalia is a strategic issue for us, but we've been badly burned there. The Al-Shabab Islamist movement has linked up with AQ (as I said they would too) and is now in control of major segments of the country. They offer the Somalis a choice that many are glad to take - they wipe out the warlords in exchange for conversion to Islam and agreeing to follow Sharia law. Remember this; no matter how bad Islamists are, they bring peace to the nations they conquer. Not freedom, not the kind of society most of us would want to live in, but peace, because the destroy anyone and anything that disagrees with them. When you're living in a war-torn and starving nation, peace may seem preferable, even if you lose your freedom (which most of them don't have anyway). We have limited influence with the Somali government, but mostly, we've ignored them. We do so at our own peril; not just because Somalia is a haven for pirates, but because it will also soon be another Afghanistan, a haven for terrorists-in-training. With Al-Shabab all chummy with AQ, we've got storm clouds on the horizon. I have said this before; no one listens. We'll listen when we're attacked by terrorists trained in Somalia, and then it will be "Why didn't we do anything about it if we knew?" Mainly because we're idiots, that's why.

We're basically in agreement here, I was mostly being sarcastic. The over all problem is more complex than simply putting guns on boats though, I agree, and it does devolve to the "Afghanistanization" of Somalia. When you're destitute and desperate, and a minor risk gets you a million bucks, and you don't even have to kill anyone to get it... Well, shiver me timbers, laddy, and raise the Jolly Rodger.

Oh, and stack up FBI/CIA dentention centers in Somalia, too, it's the new home of extraordinary rendition. (For which Obama and Bush should BOTH face trial.) We're a known source of corruption and bribery in what passes for government there. So, have some more strikes.

 

[Senjojutsu]

A bunch of rednecks with shotguns, a few kegs of beer and your problem would be solved for the price of beer and ammo...

A bunch of Rednecks against the most famous Somalian Pirate FATBEARD and his crew of killers is no contest!

Let's all sing Fatbeard's pirate ditty:

BTW love this episode show's ending. An effective use of violence!

And always remember G-I-N-G-E-R-S can't be pirates!

 

[granfire]

Rednecks at sea????

I think that just sent my brain in to a state of cognitive dissonance.

Lassie. we do have ocean front, you know, that is not in Arizona....and an odd fascination with things that go boom...and we like to put our kill where nobody can find it (unless it's a price buck, then we stuff and mount it...)
I can only see pluses right here.
Might have to forego the beer for the after hunt party...stick with sweet tea for the pregame show, but it's all good. Seagram's makes some good stuff.