SKK- Now and Then

[LawDog]

Yes, I do remember a gun shop. Your discription of the "dump" and the surrounding area fits my memory of it to a T. Of course over the last 34 - 35 years my memory of the place is some what vague. Now when I think back on the school it is probably remembered as being worse than it really was.
What ever happened to Carzy Cronin?

 

[Joe Shuras]

Yes, I do remember a gun shop. Your discription of the "dump" and the surrounding area fits my memory of it to a T. Of course over the last 34 - 35 years my memory of the place is some what vague. Now when I think back on the school it is probably remembered as being worse than it really was.
What ever happened to Carzy Cronin?

I hear ya, Al, but by today's standards, I can understand how you would remember it as a dump, lol, but it was the right school for the right area at the right time, teaching and training the right stuff, ya gotta love it......but those days are long gone. Hey, we were proud of that 'dump', lol, lots of blood, sweat & tears. Like I said, it did get a thorough facelift in 1978 but lost it's 'character' in the process, lol.

Considering everything, the instructors kept the school clean, bathrooms, changing rooms, office. I even remember this big dust type mop in the main dojo and everyone took turns cleaning the 'tumbleweeds' of dust off the hardwood floor, lol. We had this old gray mat, I suppose it was how the mats were made for the times, but it wasn't all that great cushioning and besides, we rarely used it anyway. Hardwood floors were just that, 'HARDwood', but there is at least a little give there as compared to if it were just bare concrete. Pat Cronin, no, I don't know what every happened to him. Hope he is doing fine. - Joe

 

[Joe Shuras]

I do remember Hector. How is he doing? My students jaws dropped when they saw me coaching their opponents. Thats all right, i had been to a few before and its intimidating if you have never been. Hardest part is, that the rules seem to change every year so we would train a certain way and it would be different the next year. SGM Pesare always has a way of throwing a curve ball.
Jesse

Hector is doing fine, I'll tell him you were asking for him. What we've been doing is just letting them (students) go with the preparation they get in their regular classes plus veterans of the tournament can give newbies their input. We do have the teenage/adults review a past tournament we filmed so they know exactly what they are getting into, I think that helps somewhat. I also feel this puts less pressure and stress on them, they just show up and do their thing. They seem to all enjoy it, no complaints. They look forward to going every year. - Joe

 

[MJS]

I began in the SKK system in 1985, so does that make me a old-timer?

Back then things were different, IMO. One major difference could be that I was with FVSSD back then, and I'm with USSD now. Classes were definately smaller and a bit more hard-core. If I remember correctly, I worked out mainly with ex-athletes, peace officers and military personnel. We had special workouts on Friday nights, no sensei, Brown belt and above, and worked with each other in open sparring, which I believe helped my fighting tremendously -- that doesn't seem to happen today.

Personally, I'd rather have the more hard core workout, but it seems today, people are more cautious with contact.

Another difference I see, and again this could be a difference between FVSSD and USSD, is that the combos/DMs were a bit meaner back when. Example being the end of #15, in yester-year we used an iron palm to slam the opponent to the ground ... today we simply step back and let them fall ... still effective, but a bit meaner in years past.

Hey, after raking the face, hitting the chest, etc., may as well keep the iron palm IMO.

When push comes to shove, I believe that FVSSD in the 80's was more streetwise. Today, with USSD, the system seems to be a bit more forms oriented. Don't get me wrong, if you ask for more streetwise, at least where I train, and at higher ranks, you get it, once a certain level of control is attained ... we have no ego.

One of the similarities, and I see this as a similarty across all arts, is that bully types don't stick with the arts, they remain street fighters. I believe it is the hard work, discipline, respect and dedication that does not appeal to them.

There's my two cents for the day ...

I agree. Thanks for the reply.

Mike

 

[MJS]

I'm not sure it was more streetwise. What we know now, regarding weapon defense, groundwork, etc. far outstrips what we knew then. What was there , however, was a willingness to push the students by the instructors, and the students were the folks who were ready to be pushed. A level of intensity that has moved to the MMA crowd. The student body has expanded, and the influx includes a much more diverse population. Some folks are there to yell in their pajamas, and schools accomodate them.

Matt

I have obviously been out of SKK for a while. When I was training though, I didn't, at least in the school I was going to, see alot in the area of ground and weapon work. Its good to see that its been revisited.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Matt asked about the old days, the 70's. The major difference was the intensity of the training and the 'rough & tumble'.... the contact. Anyone from that era will tell you physical contact reigned supreme and it didn't matter your gender either. A colored belt test was an ordeal and you knew you were getting a beat'n. I don't mean abuse for the fun of it...someone's ego, no, not at all, but it was an accepted part of the training to toughen you up to face the real world. I don't mean just the contact but the actual physical conditioning also. Not just the tests were rough & tumble but the classes were also, after all, they had to prepare you for the tests.

Hey Joe! Hope that all is well! As for the above post, I agree. I remember some of those tests, and yes, they were pretty intense.

No one even thought about lawsuits so liability wasn't a problem.

Agreed. People seem to forget that the Martial Arts involve contact. Kinda hard to learn to defend yourself without it.

Another thing. Today you hear stories of students sometimes asking when they would be going up for a test and so forth.

I hate that. IMO, you don't ask. When you're ready to test, your inst. will tell you.

Mike

 

[14 Kempo]

Hey, after raking the face, hitting the chest, etc., may as well keep the iron palm IMO.

LOL ... no kidding, but not using the iron palm takes out quit a lot of pain and possibly death to the opponent. Why do I say death? Well, by applying the iron palm at the end of #15 to the chest, it tends to make the opponents chin hit thier chest, then comes the ground. The back hits the ground and this causes the head to whip back down possibly splitting open the head ... possible death. Yes, racking the face, elbowing the chest area, shuto to the groin causes a lot of pain anyway, but when looking at it graphically, it is much less violent with the iron palm being left out as the finisher.
However, IMO, the only person I would have over my knee to begin with, is my girlfriend ...

 

[MJS]

LOL ... no kidding, but not using the iron palm takes out quit a lot of pain and possibly death to the opponent. Why do I say death? Well, by applying the iron palm at the end of #15 to the chest, it tends to make the opponents chin hit thier chest, then comes the ground. The back hits the ground and this causes the head to whip back down possibly splitting open the head ... possible death. Yes, racking the face, elbowing the chest area, shuto to the groin causes a lot of pain anyway, but when looking at it graphically, it is much less violent with the iron palm being left out as the finisher.

Yes, that is a good point. Then again, I often think about all of the various techniques. Pretty much every single one has a break, dislocation, rake, poke or other nasty things. Sure, as you said, some are worse than others, but there is nothing mild about our art.

However, IMO, the only person I would have over my knee to begin with, is my girlfriend ...

:ultracool

 

[Joe Shuras]

Hey Joe! Hope that all is well! As for the above post, I agree. I remember some of those tests, and yes, they were pretty intense.




Agreed. People seem to forget that the Martial Arts involve contact. Kinda hard to learn to defend yourself without it.





I hate that. IMO, you don't ask. When you're ready to test, your inst. will tell you.

Mike

Hi Mike, doing well, thanks, hope all is fine with you. I hate that too, nothing gets under my skin more than if a parent or student asks when they are going up so now I inform them of the proper 'protocol' ahead of time. I told the parents once that if I had the intention of putting their son/daughter up for a test but before I had a chance to post it, the parent asked me, I would immediately take their name off the list. Why? because if I didn't they would go away believing they influenced me into putting up their kid and the parents would look like they are controlling the ranking system. Back when I was going through the colored belts if someone asked when they were going up or they said something stupid to the instructor like 'I'm ready to go up for the next belt now'.....Man, you got an instant attitude adjustment and that's putting it mildly, lol.

I know what you mean about the contact. People want to be trained in a fighting art to be used in real world situations.... well, hello? It is reasonable that they should assume a risk of injury which actually applies to anything physical, hell, you can break an ankle taking dancing lessons, lol. - Joe

 

[kosho]

Another thing. Today you hear stories of students sometimes asking when they would be going up for a test and so forth

I tell the studnet and the mom or dad. WHEN I feel the person is ready for the next level I will Test them. until then do not ask.

If I do get asked I just tell the sure I will test them But the cost will be 1,000.00. or you can wait until I feel there ready and the cost is a lot lower... they never ask again.
kosho

 

[14 Kempo]

One of the things I notice as a difference in SKK today and in the past is the desire to see things with an open mind. Most of the people I train with today, take everything at face value, they do not experiment. I call it having a closed mind. Not everything works as given for everyone. Seemingly every technique I am given by my current instructor, works differently for me. Why? Cause he is younger, first of all, and weighs in at about 180. Whereas I have some 15 years on him in age and maybe 70 pounds. I move much different.

What I mean about an open mind and seeing the concepts and theories behind the techniques is just this, let's take combo#6 for example, this is shown as a front kick to the torso. The concept and theory is that the leg is longer than the arm, so you will be able to stop your attacker cold with the kick before the punch connects. So, what if your opponent is coming from behind, must you spin arround to face him and apply the kick? I say no, opening the mind and seeing the C&T of it tells me that I apply a linear kick. In this case, a back kick. My leg is still longer than his arm, I have stopped him in his tracks and I have not been hit.

Hope this gives you a visual of what I am trying to explain here. Today most students just try to spin around a apply a front ball kick, and guess what, they get hit.

 

[LawDog]

14_Kempo,
In the original SKK version the front kick was low, near the belt line. The front kick would be executed before your opponents front foot could "root" in. This low kick would cause a reverse pevlic tilt in your opponents posture, (the hips would be driven back). The torso would now be forward of the hip area and the hip joints would be back over or past the ankles. This would cause severe off balancing. This is the tactical theory of the early move. This tactical theory works well against a linear attack.
I understand what you are saying and agree with you. You are learning to transend a single preset itself and to apply it's tactical/concept into other situations. This in part is what a martial arts student is supposted to be learning, how to take any tactical / concept from a preset and apply it correctly into other situations. In the original SKK system there are many presets that follow similar tactical applications.
You stated that in your version of #6 the front kick goes to the torso, any area in particular?
Have a good day,
:ultracool

 

[14 Kempo]

14_Kempo,
In the original SKK version the front kick was low, near the belt line. The front kick would be executed before your opponents front foot could "root" in. This low kick would cause a reverse pevlic tilt in your opponents posture, (the hips would be driven back). The torso would now be forward of the hip area and the hip joints would be back over or past the ankles. This would cause severe off balancing. This is the tactical theory of the early move. This tactical theory works well against a linear attack.
I understand what you are saying and agree with you. You are learning to transend a single preset itself and to apply it's tactical/concept into other situations. This in part is what a martial arts student is supposted to be learning, how to take any tactical / concept from a preset and apply it correctly into other situations. In the original SKK system there are many presets that follow similar tactical applications.
You stated that in your version of #6 the front kick goes to the torso, any area in particular?
Have a good day,
:ultracool

Well I used the word torso cause I've seen people mention various targets, but they all start from the groin moving up the body. At USSD, they tell us to hit the solar plexus, this stops the opponent cold in his tracks (unless of course the attacker is much larger than you and walks through the kick, which now has you off balance). I like the pelvic region, but do what I'm told when they are looking ... LOL

My assumption always is that my attacker is either larger than myself or has a weapon of some sort.