Sentencing Children to Life?

[Jade Tigress]

A tricky line. What are your thoughts?

It made no difference that at the time of the deadly scuffle, Lotts was barely old enough to watch PG-13 movie and too young to drive, vote or buy beer.
"They locked me up and threw away the keys," Lotts, now 23, said from prison. "They took away all hope for the future."


His stepmother, the victim's mother, has forgiven Lotts and is working with lawyers to gain his release.


Lotts is one of at least 73 U.S. inmates -- most of them minorities -- who were sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison for crimes committed when they were 13 or 14, according to the Equal Justice Initiative, a nonprofit organization in Alabama that defends indigent defendants and prisoners.

Article.

 

[grydth]

In cases like this, the killer is around to plead his case. The victim isn't.

The victim was only 17 when the killer imposed capital punishment, without any notion of due process, upon him.

The victim will never see a movie again, drive, enjoy a cool beer.

The killer claims the court's sentence, " took away all hope for the future".... Yeah, well isn't that precisely what you did to the victim?

Let the killer out of jail when the victim gets out of the cemetery.

 

[arnisador]

I've got problems with this...but not necessarily solutions. I'd rather see treatment tried but we know how well that tends to work.

 

[seasoned]

The state says, when we have full thinking capacities, but as parents, we all know that a 14 yr old can’t even clean their own room, let alone grab onto life. Where do we draw the line? There is the law, and then there is, "get real".

 

[terryl965]

In cases like this, the killer is around to plead his case. The victim isn't.

The victim was only 17 when the killer imposed capital punishment, without any notion of due process, upon him.

The victim will never see a movie again, drive, enjoy a cool beer.

The killer claims the court's sentence, " took away all hope for the future".... Yeah, well isn't that precisely what you did to the victim?

Let the killer out of jail when the victim gets out of the cemetery.

I agree

 

[morph4me]

He was young when he commited the murder, but that doesn't excuse it, he'll get older, his victim won't. I have no problem seeing him get older in jail. His age shouldn't be an issue, he took a knife and stabbed someone he was supposed to be close to, twice.

 

[Kacey]

I am of two minds in this - on the one hand, I agree that someone who murders someone else deserves to have his/her future taken away; on the other hand, it is common for defendants with money to hire better lawyers and get better deals. Should 2 defendants, equal in all respects except their access to money, get different punishments? This is a fundamental flaw in our legal system, and there are no easy answers to it.

 

[Gordon Nore]

A tricky line. What are your thoughts?

Article.

I skimmed the story about Lotts.

It began as horseplay, with two teenage stepbrothers chasing each other with blow guns and darts. But it soon escalated when one of the boys grabbed a knife.
...

Lotts was sentenced in Missouri's St. Francois County Circuit Court in 2002 to life in prison without parole for first-degree murder in his stepbrother's stabbing death.

My question is how they came up with Murder 1 in the first place unless it was to send some sort of message. If this is how the situation escalated, I don't really the intent.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Nathaniel Abraham was sentenced to life in prison for a murder he committed when he was 11 years old.

http://www.kevo.com/profile/nathanielabraham/Biography

His sentence was commuted - after he became Amnesty International's poster child. He served just 10 years, released on his 21st birthday.

He's back behind bars, for drug trafficking. Despite being offered help from every bleeding heart and high profile 'love those criminals' groups in the country, he prefers to sell and use dope, and to kill people.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q="Nathaniel Abraham"&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

It gets old. Lock the punks up. Don't let them out. Big boy crime, big boy time.

 

[Twin Fist]

they can grow old in prison.

NO sympathy

and of course theNAACP will cry racism, the NAACP has no other function than to cray racism.....

 

[CuongNhuka]

I am of two minds in this - on the one hand, I agree that someone who murders someone else deserves to have his/her future taken away; on the other hand, it is common for defendants with money to hire better lawyers and get better deals. Should 2 defendants, equal in all respects except their access to money, get different punishments? This is a fundamental flaw in our legal system, and there are no easy answers to it.

No, one offence, one punishment. A persons access to money should be completly besides the point. But, I think we all remember a certain murder trial were the guy was obviouly guilty, but was acquited because he could play baseball.

Theres a reason I think private practice lawyers have no place in a courtroom. You should only get your own for legal advice. You should be able to switch a court appointed lawyer, of course.

 

[MJS]

One thing that irks the hell out of me when I see things like is, is when people start talking about age. Who the hell cares what age they are! I mean think about it...if I or anyone else did what this person did, there is a pretty good chance we'd end up in jail either for life or for a long time. Murder is a serious offense. So the fact that this kid was 17 when this happened, IMHO is moot. Doesn't matter if he was 17 or 47, he killed someone...plain and simple.

As its been said here already, this person took away any 2nd chance for the victim. I'm also of the belief that if rehab is even suggested, the person getting it needs to accept it. If there is no chance at rehabilitating this person, then he's better off in prison.

If he does get out, he damn well better walk the straight line. Any screw up, no matter what it is and his *** needs to land back in prison.

 

[MJS]

they can grow old in prison.

NO sympathy

and of course theNAACP will cry racism, the NAACP has no other function than to cray racism.....

Amen! And we can add the ACLU to that list as well.

 

[Big Don]

But, I think we all remember a certain murder trial were the guy was obviouly guilty, but was acquited because he could play baseball.

Football.
To quote Chris Rock, "If OJ drove a bus, he wouldn't even BE OJ, he'd be Orenthal, the Bus Drivin' Murderer"

 

[Andy Moynihan]

They want to do adult crimes, you treat 'em like adults.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Actually, we have a high-profile first-degree murder case going on right now in Toronto that involves trying youths as adults.

D.B. and M.T. were students at the same high school and began dating in March 2007, according to an agreed statement of facts that Flumerfelt read into the record.
"Their relationship quickly became sexual and they were professing their love for each other within a few days of going out," Flumerfelt said. "Their relationship was marked by jealousy on both sides."
D.B. called or texted M.T. more than 3,300 times in four months. She monitored his email address to determine if he had been speaking to other girls and insisted on having his Facebook and MSN passwords to check his conversations, Flumerfelt said.
She was jealous of many of D.B.'s ex-girlfriends, but became particularly jealous of Stefanie, with whom he had a brief relationship.
"The chats clearly demonstrate that M.T. was jealous and controlling; highly manipulative and obsessed with a hatred for Stefanie, a girl she didn't even know," Flumerfelt said.
She began to pressure D.B. to kill Stefanie, the statement said.
On Oct. 20, 2007, D.B. developed a ruse to satisfy his girlfriend without harming Stefanie. He went to Stefanie's home and told her about the situation, leaving his phone and asking that when M.T. called she should pretend that he had tried to kill her so she would stop pressuring him.
But M.T. kept pushing him to kill Stefanie, Flumerfelt said.
On Jan. 1, 2008, M.T. "threatened and taunted him saying that she would have sex with another boy if D.B. did not comply with her demands."
He went to Stefanie's street armed with a large knife, frequently speaking on the phone with M.T.
He phoned Stefanie, call-blocking his number, and lured her outside, telling her he wanted to talk to her, then he stabbed her.

http://www.thestar.com/article/616693

The male accused was within days of his 18th birthday at the time he allegedly murdered a fourteen year old girl, who coincidentally was the daughter and step-daughter of two veteran Toronto Police officers. The murder took place early new year's day steps from the young girl's home. There's a substantial trail of hundreds of text and voice messages planning and discussing the murder.

The male has recently elected to forgo a jury trial and plead "not guilty" to first-degree murder, which is almost unheard-of. Speculation arose that this was part of a plea agreement for sentencing as a youthful offender. But no, the Crown (prosecutor) has called for adult sentencing -- life, in fact -- so now it's in the judge's hands. We don't know what's happening with the female alleged co-conspirator who was pressuring the male to commit the murder, based on evidence given. I believe she was fifteen at the time the murder was committed.

If this isn't a case for premeditation, I don't know what is. Given the apparent long-term planning of the crime, I suspect the male at least will be sentenced as an adult. And I think that would be appropriate.

 

[MA-Caver]

The state says, when we have full thinking capacities, but as parents, we all know that a 14 yr old can’t even clean their own room, let alone grab onto life. Where do we draw the line? There is the law, and then there is, "get real".

Most 14 year olds can't clean their rooms because their parents haven't taught them to do it or get grounded when they were younger. THAT is a lack of discipline... not a lack of thinking capabilities.

Where I work there is a 16 yr. old gal doing exactly what I'm doing. A tour guide leading a large group of adults around and getting them to listen to what she has to say and following HER directions.
At that age they're perfectly capable of acting as an adult when they learn the right things.

These kids that have killed, robbed, raped and done just about every other type of crimes that we wouldn't be shocked by if committed by an adult but are sadden when a juvenile does them are fully aware of what they're doing. They learned how from older kids and adults and the other various exposures to violent crimes by whatever media and eventual trial and error.
Granted they MIGHT not be fully aware of the consequences of their actions but then again a lot of adults aren't either at times.

Each case should be weighed, each offender measured and justice meted out fairly to the findings.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Football.
To quote Chris Rock, "If OJ drove a bus, he wouldn't even BE OJ, he'd be Orenthal, the Bus Drivin' Murderer"

There's been more then one high-profile murderer who was obviously guilty, but was not charged with anything. You jump to OJ, someone else jumps somewere else. Some people (around my age) might think of someone else who did something else (think peeing...). It's all a part of percention. I cann't even remember who it was I was thinking of.

 

[matt.m]

Let me tell ya all something. When you wanna be a "Bleeding Heart" for some jerk that horrindiously breaks the law then you know I say you are an enabler of the conduct.

I have been in countries in The Med and Middle East where kids are the greatest weapons of meyham. Sorry, I have seen a lot of ugly and like my papy always said "Don't do the crime if ya can't do the time."

I once saw a Marine get 20 years in Levenworth for hitting someone in the head with a baseball bat. Didn't kill them, but hey dude the law is the law.

It kinda goes along with "It is is to find religion in the jail. But why was it so hard to find it out of the jail?"

There are rules and laws and they are put in place to "Protect" society and are guidelines of what is to happen when these laws are infringed upon. Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder is Commandment 10 and I don't know of anywhere in the world where any governing body says its ok. So really I think if someone kills another in cold blood then they should be killed in a very bad way indeed. Everyone feels bad after they get caught, oh well.

 

[granfire]

A tricky line. What are your thoughts?



Article.

Well, I am having problems with this...you can drive at 16, die in the service at 17, vote and smoke at 18 or 19, drink at 21, but there is no clear cut rule about treating juvenile offenders like adults. I mean, if we are not able to have a drink in a responsible manner, can we be trusted with cars, and if we are not mature at 21, how come we can be considered mature to stand trial as an adult at 13?!