Self Defense Experience

[MarkBarlow]

This has come up a time or two at seminars and the response always surprises me.

How many of you have ever been in a "real" fight? Someone trying to hurt/kill you for whatever reason.

How many of you have had a knife/bladed weapon used against you?
If so, how many of you have been cut/stabbed?

How many of you have had a gun pulled on you?

 

[Drac]

This has come up a time or two at seminars and the response always surprises me.

How many of you have ever been in a "real" fight? Someone trying to hurt/kill you for whatever reason.

Almost everytime I arrest someone..SO at least 5 times a day/week

How many of you have had a knife/bladed weapon used against you?

Once

If so, how many of you have been cut/stabbed?

Nope..Suspect was disarmed..

How many of you have had a gun pulled on you?

Not yet...

 

[jks9199]

Like Drac, I've tussled with my share of folks who didn't want to go to jail. Maybe a few less 'cause I've learned to talk a little more before I go hands on... Getting older does that to you.

Never had someone pull a knife on me, though I've had a few carrying and thinking about it. Those are times that talking WON'T work... Gotta act first.

Nobody's pulled a gun on me yet... though I came to damn close to giving one guy an opportunity. And a kid with an Airsoft-type gun came real close to getting shot...

 

[still learning]

Hello, Many martial artist become surprise when they find out there way of training does not teach them for the real world of fighting back, or using their self-defense does not work.

Real fighting (does not look like KATAS's), real fighting is fast, furious, anything goes, NO RULES, NO time out, it could go to the ground anytime too.

Anyone nearby could jump in and attack you. Anything can be use for weapons too.

We all train in practice for mulitple fighting...in the real world it is different!

Until you experience this? Many of you will not understand? In a few fights you maybe successful....BUT many times our martials do not teach the adrenline,fear mode of fighting back.

Just my opinion on this.......ONE day you will find out for yourself?

Aloha (best to avoid, learn awareness, leave or run away!)

 

[thardey]

The closest I've ever come is that twice I've disarmed an airsoft pistol from friends, and a couple of times in "knife fencing" (dueling with practice knives and safety gear) I've lost my knife, and instead of quitting, I disarmed my opponent instead.

Since they were never in the realm of actual danger, but more in the line of "surprise opportunities to practice", I wasn't throwing the knees and elbows I would otherwise, nor were the attackers determined.

But they did work! A couple of weekends ago we were playing paintball, and my airsoft gun was my sidearm. (We were just playing for fun.) One idiot (teammate) snatched it out of my holster when I bent over to fix my gun. It wasn't until well after I disarmed him and took my gun back (It was an instinctual response that I didn't stop) that I realized what I had done. (In fact I don't even remember doing it -- I remember reaching out, then the gun was in my hand.) Then I lectured him on not just grabbing someone's gun, but asking to see it. (He didn't know I knew martial arts, or that I actually carry a glock).

 

[MarkBarlow]

It always surprises me to learn how few instructors have any real life experience. I became a bouncer/doorman and worked as a store detective in order to provide more "hands on" training. Because of a warped sense of humor and not knowing when to shut up, I've also had a few non-work related tussles.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

Been in quite afew fights due to one or a combo of the following:
Location (schools, jobs, rougher areas, being the wrong shade next to those around me, my mouth, not letting a friend take a stomping alone, lowlifes who feel working is not how you get money. Fist, feet,guns, multiples, bats, stcks, bottles, car antena's, skateborads have been involved
Many of those in hindsight could have been avoided but a few of those were forced issues.

Since I have grown up I down seem to get into fights anymore, only a few "situaltions" in the last few years

I have always been a martial artist and I feel what I have been training in for the last 10 years is better than what I used to do, but I am not looking for fights to prove technique, sparring is rough enough and wishing for things like that brings things like that.

You dont have to be an expeienced brawlerIMO to teach MA for SD, but you have to know what your own blood taste like and what fear feels like.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hey Mark, like yourself Drac, Jks9199, I have some work related experience dealing with both armed and unarmed perpetrators. Definately an eye opener and life changer. Whenever I have used anything I have always tried to be in a position of strength with backup if at all possible. There is after all nothing quite like having numbers on your side. Then again even without backup I have always tried to be in a position of strength with a tool in use to give an advantage. Still anything can and usually does happen in a violent encounter and every one of them has always been unique unto itself.

 

[Sukerkin]

I've been a whole one violent encounter in my adult life so I'd hardly classify myself as 'experienced' in this regard. I'd fully prefer to keep it that way too.

The singular fight I had was against three on one odds and one of the attackers was 'armed' with a broken bottle.

The fight was over in a matter of moments and I was only afraid before and after.

However, I have to say that the original question has draw out a response or two that I feel to be a touch flawed. To believe that the art you train in is not actually going to do you any good in a fight is to accept that you are training for other reasons and to disregard the whole basis upon which the martial arts stand.

In the final analysis, any person can train forever and a day in an art and if they are not a 'fighter' in and of themselves then no amount of grades are going to turn them into one. What that training can do is enable you to escape a circumstance which would otherwise turn out badly for you.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I've been a whole one violent encounter in my adult life so I'd hardly classify myself as 'experienced' in this regard. I'd fully prefer to keep it that way too.

I hope and pray that it stays that way too. People who seek out combat usually have short lives, and are usually unpleasant to be around.

In the final analysis, any person can train forever and a day in an art and if they are not a 'fighter' in and of themselves then no amount of grades are going to turn them into one. What that training can do is enable you to escape a circumstance which would otherwise turn out badly for you.

Like Mark, I have worked as a bouncer and had my own fair share of encounters, a couple of which ended in rather nasty injuries to my opponents. But, as Sukerkin says, when it comes down to it if you are not of the mentality that can convert training into violent action then no amount of training will change you.

I will echo Sukerkin's point, however, that training can help to get out of potentially bad circumstances, even if you are not the sort of person who can "throw down".

 

[Drac]

Because of a warped sense of humor and not knowing when to shut up, I've also had a few non-work related tussles.

Are sure we didn't work the same clubs??? All my bouncers and ID checkers have that problem..Me too

 

[still learning]

Hello, Adding a few more things to think about?

All of our training is done in a very safe enviroment. We practice in a NONE fear mode, because we know it is a class enviroment.

There is very little FEAR-STRESS in a dojo/class. Many times we have lots of people around us. (friendly's), and we practice many times with the same people.

In the real world...alone..not knowing the attacker (s')....by yourself in a a place that is NOT like your dojo.... the adrenline kicking in...the fear factor is clouding your thinking...heart pumping...you can hear it going faster.............than you wake up? whew? or is it real?

The real world will always be different than the training gounds.

What can you do? ...find a place that teaches real situtions....JUDO IS GOOD

(Fear and Fearless) can be the same person....in a dojo-you become fearless because it is a safe place....on the streets-Fear- kicks in....knowing how to switch your mind? takes real practice!

Aloha (from a real person) who has both fears!

 

[Tez3]

Hello, Adding a few more things to think about?

All of our training is done in a very safe enviroment. We practice in a NONE fear mode, because we know it is a class enviroment.

There is very little FEAR-STRESS in a dojo/class. Many times we have lots of people around us. (friendly's), and we practice many times with the same people.

In the real world...alone..not knowing the attacker (s')....by yourself in a a place that is NOT like your dojo.... the adrenline kicking in...the fear factor is clouding your thinking...heart pumping...you can hear it going faster.............than you wake up? whew? or is it real?

The real world will always be different than the training gounds.

What can you do? ...find a place that teaches real situtions....JUDO IS GOOD

(Fear and Fearless) can be the same person....in a dojo-you become fearless because it is a safe place....on the streets-Fear- kicks in....knowing how to switch your mind? takes real practice!

Aloha (from a real person) who has both fears!

You don't know my instructor! And I'm not joking. When we've been out and there's been a fight (happens often sadly) and someone tries to involve him, it ends very quickly. He is one of the few people I know that can teach what he knows will work because he's used it. He's also done the doors and been a military policeman ( don't hold that against him though) on close protection duties something he carries on now he's a civvie.

 

[bydand]

Let's see, Knife - yep, board/club - yep, firearm - yep. You know for being a rather peace loving individual, you would never be able to tell it from my youth. You forgot one thing though, somebody once flipped a belt over my head and tried to choke me out with it at a lovely bar I was at in Lansing, MI. Funny thing is though, these ALL happened before I started to seriously train in any MA. Never been cut in anger, never had an extra hole poked in me anywhere by a bullet; have had the living poo knocked out of me a few times though.

I have to agree with what seems to be the general consensus though, and that being it has to be "in" you to begin with when it comes to SD. Training IS a big benefit, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if something unthinkable happens again, my training WILL help. Right along with the unconscious response to unavoidable danger to get out as quickly as I can, anyway I can, with those who depend on me coming first.

I'll be 44 in a couple of hours and I think age has mellowed me beyond what even I though was possible. Couple that with maturing enough to know I don't always have to take the painful way out of a situation, because those who matter to me know who I really am, and I have nothing to "prove" to them. Just so you are not left wondering: 1st knife - attempted robbery, same with the 2nd knife. 3rd knife - jealous boyfriend :idunno:. Gun - 12 guage - drunk redneck, jealous boyfriend. 2X4 chunk - pissed off husband. (No, not cheating, I made a rather rude comment.) Do you see a pattern emerging here? My own stupidity and being a sucker for a pretty girl. Mainly stupidity! (belt in the bar, I still have no clue about though?)

99% could have been avoided with just a bit more awareness of my surroundings; and the knowledge of what is really important, to want to avoid such things. If I ever get to teach a SD course that is the #1 thing I can think of trying to instill in others.

 

[bydand]

All of our training is done in a very safe enviroment. We practice in a NONE fear mode, because we know it is a class enviroment.

There is very little FEAR-STRESS in a dojo/class. Many times we have lots of people around us. (friendly's), and we practice many times with the same people.

At the last seminar I was at, I asked one of the highest rank holders in our art a question on a hold, and after being shown a few times I thought I had it. He turns around to walk away and when he is about 5 or 6 steps away he spins around with this very, very PO'ed look on his face, raced toward me and made a grab at one of the tendons in my neck. I dropped while grabbing his hand and tried to boot his knee backwards as I went down. He smiled and said, "Not bad, you went with something you knew instead of something you just learned." I really thought for a second he was going to rip my head off right there! (He wouldn't have done it to 90% of the people there, but I have known him for many, many years and trained with him for years.) It was eye opening to say the least. When I got up, the people training around me were just standing there with their mouths open, they had thought the same thing I did - "Gordon's a dead man!"

 

[Carol]

I've diffused confrontations. Scared people off. Lived next to a (then) Massachusetts Correctional Institute halfway-house with a 45% recidivism rate. The inmates were male, convicted of crimes that ranged from minor drug infractions to manslaughter.

I've been burglarized a few times, had violent neighbors, lived in what some folks call the "inner city", shared the sidewalk with drug dealers and prostitutes, been the one in my building that wasn't sexually assaulted by (insert this month's suspect-at-large), avoided a few attempted robberies (for my bike or for my musical equipment), dodged one serious stalker and several casual stalkers, and survived an arson attack. My old apartment unit bordered an apartment unit that housed an infamous Boston criminal/folk hero. We shared a common wall thin enough to hear each other's telephone conversations. I've pushed away drunks twice my size, screamed my lungs out to fend off drug-addled freaks, and acted like an insane fool to escape a bad situation.

I'm also out alone late at night, every week night, as I work 2nd shift at a place nearly 50 miles from my home, and have had to scare off a few whack jobs on times I've had to refuel in the early morning hours. I've called 911 a approximately a dozen times about events that I was not personally in, but close enough to see during my night commute home.

Sorry for the self-indulgence, but this is a subject that touches not just a nerve, but the cerbral cortex to which that nerve is attached. The problem I have with using the "real fight" metric of self-defense experience is that such a metric tends to ignore the value of using one's brain.

It's not that I think physical combat skills are unimportant - they certainly are. But having the analytics and discipline to avoid trouble or walk away from a tense situation is just as important to self-protection. Unfortunately there isn't a glamorous way to measure that skill.

Outside of class, I have never had a punch thrown at me, or a weapon drawn on me. I intend on keeping my "perfect record".

 

[Big Don]

Being a big guy, (5'11 250) my size has kept me from having too many physical confrontations. However, size does not intimidate stray dogs... I had been taking Kenpo less than two months when I was charged by a large stray, snapping and growling at me. I instantly stepped back into a right fighting stance, waited until he was in range and executed an absolutely B E A utiful left round house kick that connected to his ribs and sent him flying about 6 feet through the air. I had a knife pulled on me just after I graduated high school and reacted by throwing the 12 pack of Pepsi I had just bought through his windshield... Problem solved...

 

[MarkBarlow]

I've taken away a couple of guns, dealt with a couple of knives (have the scars to prove it) and learned how to find the nearest exit in a crowded and decidedly unfriendly bar. While I can honestly say I've never looked for a fight, I also have to admit that I didn't always walk away when I could/should have. But, all in all, I think my experiences have been positive and helped me be a better martial artist.

 

[shesulsa]

I've diffused confrontations. Scared people off. Lived next to a (then) Massachusetts Correctional Institute halfway-house with a 45% recidivism rate. The inmates were male, convicted of crimes that ranged from minor drug infractions to manslaughter.

I've been burglarized a few times, had violent neighbors, lived in what some folks call the "inner city", shared the sidewalk with drug dealers and prostitutes, been the one in my building that wasn't sexually assaulted by (insert this month's suspect-at-large), avoided a few attempted robberies (for my bike or for my musical equipment), dodged one serious stalker and several casual stalkers, and survived an arson attack. My old apartment unit bordered an apartment unit that housed an infamous Boston criminal/folk hero. We shared a common wall thin enough to hear each other's telephone conversations. I've pushed away drunks twice my size, screamed my lungs out to fend off drug-addled freaks, and acted like an insane fool to escape a bad situation.

I'm also out alone late at night, every week night, as I work 2nd shift at a place nearly 50 miles from my home, and have had to scare off a few whack jobs on times I've had to refuel in the early morning hours. I've called 911 a approximately a dozen times about events that I was not personally in, but close enough to see during my night commute home.

Sorry for the self-indulgence, but this is a subject that touches not just a nerve, but the cerbral cortex to which that nerve is attached. The problem I have with using the "real fight" metric of self-defense experience is that such a metric tends to ignore the value of using one's brain.

It's not that I think physical combat skills are unimportant - they certainly are. But having the analytics and discipline to avoid trouble or walk away from a tense situation is just as important to self-protection. Unfortunately there isn't a glamorous way to measure that skill.

Outside of class, I have never had a punch thrown at me, or a weapon drawn on me. I intend on keeping my "perfect record".

I share a lot of things with Carol here, except I don't have a "perfect record."

Lived in West Treces territory for years with my now ex and young child, another time on the battle line for some Viet gangs nearby. So I've had my shares of avoided confrontations and "situations" using verbals skills, attitude, posture yes but mainly awareness of my surroundings. This and confidence have to be the most useful tools I have and the ones I use most often. Having been on the wrong side of a blade twice, gun once, 2 X 4 once and bare hands more than a few times, I'll take those tools any day.

Since I started martial arts training I've had a knife pulled on me which I disarmed in a way I had not learned up to that point, but it was a gimme - loser wanted me to use it on him. Ducked a few swings, stared and shouted down a few dozen, especially as a security guard.

I thwarted an attempt by a meth addict to put me on the ground without realizing it, not using a technique per se that I had ever learned, training just kicked in and the dood went down instead of me.

The most recent incidences involve having to contain and control my oldest son which is getting increasingly difficult. He is autistic and has psych problems (but then, don't all 17 year olds?); he is exit-seeking and has come swinging at us several times. He is so large and has seen and done so much training he can get out of things rather easily. His height lends him a good reach advantage. Controlling him physically when I have to is a good test of training, I think ... though I'd rather not have to do it. Hence I've gotten pretty good at my verbal skills.

 

[bobster_ice]

This has come up a time or two at seminars and the response always surprises me.

How many of you have ever been in a "real" fight? Someone trying to hurt/kill you for whatever reason.

How many of you have had a knife/bladed weapon used against you?
If so, how many of you have been cut/stabbed?

How many of you have had a gun pulled on you?

Where I come from there are alot of dicks who carry knives with them. Ive had a knife pulled out on me 3 times before, 2 of the times the guys tried to stabbed me.

All I can say is if it were not for martial arts, I wouldnt be here right now......