Knowing How To Use A Weapon...Is It Important?

[MJS]

Pretty much every art out there has weapon defense. Of course, some defenses may be better than others, but thats another thread. I'd like to discuss a few things. Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it? If you do, do you include that into your training?

IMO, if someone was going to focus on a gun disarm, I'd think that it'd be a good idea to understand how the gun functions. The same can be said for a knife. Now, while it may appear that with a blade, all you have to do is pick it up and make a stabbing or slashing movement, there really is much more to it. If you've ever seen someone use a knife, who really knew what they were doing, you'd have a different look on your disarms.

Thoughts?

 

[tntma12]

I think it is very important to have knowledge of using a weapon before you can defend against it.

As far as my teaching, I do train weapon defense, but also I teach about the weapons and offense with them as well as weapon against weapon.

 

[exile]

Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it?

Thoughts?

To answer the question posed: yes, absolutely. And you should also have an understanding about how the weopon is typically used, not just used by people who are highly proficient technically in that weapon. The best training for bladed weapon disarms, I'd think, would be against a whole spectrum of skills from the simple grab-and-stab level to those of the experience knife artist (and I think we can all agree, no matter how good your empty-hand MA skills are, you don't want to be facing one of those, ever...)

 

[KempoGuy06]

I think it is important. For knife defense for instance, my instructor has a rubber knife that will make a mark with run across your clothing. Since he takes it into account that most people can stab or slash with a knife he will come at us and we are to defend. This is pretty simple and everyone does a good job. He will then explain that there are more ways to attack with a knife (like MJS said). He will then attack us again and we are to use the same defenses, the face that the rubber knife makes marks is key here, while we we able to defend against a direct stab or slash the marks on our gi's will show us wear we would get hit with someone not using a traditional attacking motion. Telling how someone might attack differently with a knife and then showing us how we need to adjust our current material seems really important to me.

sorry if it is hard to follow I think faster than I type

Good topic MJS

B

 

[14 Kempo]

My answer to the question is, "Yes". It is very much a benefit to disarming a knife weilding attacker if you know how to use a knife yourself. First of all, knowing how to use a knife will enable you to more quickly assess the level of threat presented by your attacker. Don't get me wrong, the threat is high anytime a knife is involved, but a knife in the hands of a skilled person is an even greater threat.

 

[Monadnock]

Just to be different, Yes and no.

An attack could come in the form of almost anything. Having a good idea on working with blunt objects, flexible ones, sharp ones, and ones that go bang is a good idea. But trying to study them all would be kind of challenging.

If you are lucky enough to even see what's in their hand at night, you might alter your defense, but I think it is better to know how to handle things more generally. That is, practice good body movement, timing, and distancing.

 

[Bigshadow]

Pretty much every art out there has weapon defense. Of course, some defenses may be better than others, but thats another thread. I'd like to discuss a few things. Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it? If you do, do you include that into your training?

IMO, if someone was going to focus on a gun disarm, I'd think that it'd be a good idea to understand how the gun functions. The same can be said for a knife. Now, while it may appear that with a blade, all you have to do is pick it up and make a stabbing or slashing movement, there really is much more to it. If you've ever seen someone use a knife, who really knew what they were doing, you'd have a different look on your disarms.

Thoughts?

I firmly believe, to be a good tori (receiving the attack) one must be a good uke (attacker). One cannot be one or the other, one has to be good at both to be good at one. So, yes, one must know enough about how to use a weapon to defend against the weapon.

 

[jks9199]

Pretty much every art out there has weapon defense. Of course, some defenses may be better than others, but thats another thread. I'd like to discuss a few things. Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it? If you do, do you include that into your training?

IMO, if someone was going to focus on a gun disarm, I'd think that it'd be a good idea to understand how the gun functions. The same can be said for a knife. Now, while it may appear that with a blade, all you have to do is pick it up and make a stabbing or slashing movement, there really is much more to it. If you've ever seen someone use a knife, who really knew what they were doing, you'd have a different look on your disarms.

Thoughts?

I think you have to know enough about the weapon to understand how it works, how it is used, and where or what are it's specific dangers. But you don't have to be an expert. For example, you have to know enough about guns to know the difference in how a revolver works from how a semi-auto pistol (some approaches wouldn't work on one, but would on the other), and the extra risks inherent in the blast from a shotgun (you need to be WELL inside the muzzle if the trigger is pulled, or you might as well be shot). But you don't have to be an expert shot.

Similarly, with a knife, you have to know enough to understand how dangerous it is, but you don't have to be a knife fighting expert.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Pretty much every art out there has weapon defense. Of course, some defenses may be better than others, but thats another thread. I'd like to discuss a few things. Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it? If you do, do you include that into your training?

IMO, if someone was going to focus on a gun disarm, I'd think that it'd be a good idea to understand how the gun functions. The same can be said for a knife. Now, while it may appear that with a blade, all you have to do is pick it up and make a stabbing or slashing movement, there really is much more to it. If you've ever seen someone use a knife, who really knew what they were doing, you'd have a different look on your disarms.

Thoughts?

Cuong Nhu includes Knife and Gun disarms. Before we teach you Knife disarms, we teach how to weild a Tambo (which is used in a similar manner). Before we teach you gun disarms, we teach you knife disarms. Since our gun disarms are based off some of our knife disarms. And you answered why we teach Tambo before Knife disarms.
We also teach Aikido and include some of the Aikido throws/takedowns, which we apply to knife/gun disarms.

 

[MA-Caver]

Not knowing how a weapon works/functions and trying to disarm it is akin to trying to stop a rolling car by getting in the drivers seat without knowing how to drive.
While you may never use said weapon, having a base understanding of how they work/function will go a long way in stopping it from hurting you. Armies for centuries have "cross-trained" in multiple weapons so that the soldier doesn't have to be without should their own primary be lost in battle. It's just common sense.

Granted the chances could be rare that the need will arise but better to know than not to know. The human mind is capable of storing mass quantities of information. For the martialist they should have a good working knowledge of weaponry to utilize should the need arises.

 

[Balrog]

Pretty much every art out there has weapon defense. Of course, some defenses may be better than others, but thats another thread. I'd like to discuss a few things. Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it? If you do, do you include that into your training?

Absolutely. I feel that before a student learns to defend against a weapon, they have to have a functional knowledge of what the weapon can do and the various ways it can be used.

 

[terryl965]

To me it is the essence of one's training so yes, but you must first understand the weapon to fully understand how to defend against it.

 

[Kacey]

I suppose it depends on the level of proficiency that you consider "knowing" how to use a weapon. Do I think it would benefit me to learn how to engage the safety and unload a gun? Yes - and I'm setting up sessions to learn that. But do I need to be a sharpshooter? No, I don't think so. The same goes for using a knife - I know enough to be able to tell a skilled used from an unskilled user, and what to do about each, but not enough to be a skilled user myself.

There are so many things to learn, and a limited time to learn it; no one can specialize in everything, but I do think it behooves to learn enough general information to be able to respond appropriately to situations.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

What kind of answer could you expect?

The single thing that kept humans above animals was our ability to make tools.

Weapons have, by extension, therefore ALWAYS been humans' first choice to fight with, so be alert for them at all times.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Pretty much every art out there has weapon defense. Of course, some defenses may be better than others, but thats another thread. I'd like to discuss a few things. Do you feel that its necessary to have a working knowledge of the weapon in order to disarm it? If you do, do you include that into your training?

IMO, if someone was going to focus on a gun disarm, I'd think that it'd be a good idea to understand how the gun functions. The same can be said for a knife. Now, while it may appear that with a blade, all you have to do is pick it up and make a stabbing or slashing movement, there really is much more to it. If you've ever seen someone use a knife, who really knew what they were doing, you'd have a different look on your disarms.

Thoughts?

One needs to understand how a weapon works. i.e. a flexable weapon will move differently then a fixed weapon. Then if it is a two handed weapon that can also be used one handed and the distance can change.

So in my opinion understanding the weapon is good.

 

[Blindside]

The same goes for using a knife - I know enough to be able to tell a skilled used from an unskilled user, and what to do about each, but not enough to be a skilled user myself.

What are your cues that a person is skilled, and what do you do differently?

Lamont

 

[MA-Caver]

I suppose it depends on the level of proficiency that you consider "knowing" how to use a weapon. Do I think it would benefit me to learn how to engage the safety and unload a gun? Yes - and I'm setting up sessions to learn that. But do I need to be a sharpshooter? No, I don't think so. The same goes for using a knife - I know enough to be able to tell a skilled used from an unskilled user, and what to do about each, but not enough to be a skilled user myself.

What are your cues that a person is skilled, and what do you do differently?

I found myself asking the same question. I mean just because a person is able to do some fancy moves with a knife doesn't necessarily mean they're a skilled fighter with it. There's a difference. For one thing 9 out of 10 you won't even SEE the knife until after it's cut you, you'll probably see their arm move towards then away from you but not always the blade itself. To me this is one of the signs saying this is a skilled (knife) fighter.
A well trained/experience fighter knows that psychologically a knife can be as or more intimidating than a gun, but also knows about the fear factor of feeling something brush against them (from a slash) and moments later feeling the wetness of their blood on their bodies/clothes, and the realization "omg! I've been cut! How badly?" and volia the mind is distracted and overcome with fear and thus becomes an easier target.
But usually this is with a largely unskilled or basic skilled individual. A knife fighter going against an (unarmed) knife fighter isn't (always) going to get the same reaction. As a knife fighter I always expect a blade... even if I don't see one.
As far as knowing a skilled from an unskilled one... it varies with the individual but how they handle the blade, how they use it, how they move with it, the look in their eyes, where they're looking and so on.

There are so many things to learn, and a limited time to learn it; no one can specialize in everything, but I do think it behooves to learn enough general information to be able to respond appropriately to situations.

I'll disagree with you on the "limited time to learn it"... the only time limit is the one you put on it. I'm still learning (which is one of the reasons why I'm grateful to MT) and will continue TO learn no matter what. I have no time limit or such restraints upon myself. There's ALWAYS time to learn :asian:
No we can't learn everything but we can learn a lot about most things.