Knife vs Gun

[Traditionalist]

I was reading another thread about gun carrying and it made me think about a discussion I have with my brother (who is also a martial artist). The discussion is whether we would like to go up against a person who is carring a gun or a knife. We both say gun because:

1) In our experience, most people that have a gun usually draw it as a warning and let you know they have one.

2) a person who has a knife and uses it as a weapon will hardly ever let you know he has it until you're already stabbed or right before the act.

3) A lot of people who have guns aren't very good shots when it come down to pointing a loaded weapon at some one and taking their life. I'm talking about real life not Hollywood where everyone knows how to use a gun and shoot it.

4) A person who uses a knife as a weopon and are meaning to do harm with it is a special kind of person. They want to get up close and person "See the white of your eyes" (I heard that in a movie once). Its a personal weapon and a lot of time it requires a personal contact with your victim.

We've come up with several other points but I don't want this introduction to be too long. Of course I do understand that guns seem scarier and they are louder but some how I like that. Knifes are sneaker and if you know how to use it right deadlier. But as a martial artist I've been taught to defend against a knife and know that if I see it coming I have a good chance and a gun, well I missed that lesson on how to dodge a bullet after its been shot.

I just want to hear other people take on it and I do realize there is always exceptions for both rules, and a lot depends on the situation.

 

[Guardian]

I'm not being a smart **** here, but what society have you grown up in, not mine.

Most people who pull a gun in the America I know have one intention, do what they tell you or they'll put one in you. The only ones that pull it as a warning are citizens defending their property or lifes and want to warn you, someone pulling it on you to rob you or kill you are doing just that, pulling it to use it.

Read the papers, watch the news, killings everyday by people with guns, our society of today has no problem with blowing someone away anymore. Those willing to pull a gun don't have to be a good shot, they have 6, 7, 10, 12, 16+ rounds to hit you with, good shot has nothing to do with it, law of averages does and the law of average says, one of those bullets will strike you sooner or later.

A person with a knife is not a special kind of person, they just couldn't afford or steal a gun for their use yet.

I would like to point out also, as a Martial Artist, you have been trained to defend against a knife in a school or controlled setting, be cautious my friend. There is a difference between that and someone outside of that environment. Don't take that wrong, it's the best thing next to the real thing, but don't be fooled into thinking that's the answer to a knife attack, just as anything, Murphy's Law always comes into play.

 

[arnisador]

If someone has a weapon and won't use it, sure, I'd take that person. Otherwise...as a rule, a knife is deadly but a gun is worse.

 

[IcemanSK]

All I know is NEVER bring a knife to a gun fight!

 

[jks9199]

I was reading another thread about gun carrying and it made me think about a discussion I have with my brother (who is also a martial artist). The discussion is whether we would like to go up against a person who is carring a gun or a knife. We both say gun because:

1) In our experience, most people that have a gun usually draw it as a warning and let you know they have one.

What experience are you drawing on? I admit, as a LEO, I have drawn my firearm in preparation and hopes that the presentation will deter a violent act -- but I assure you, I'm ready and willing to use it.

It's a hugely dangerous assumption that someone who is presenting you with a weapon (or any other imminent threat that they have the capability to carry out, for that matter) is not willing and able to use it. It's an assumption that very possibly will get you killed dead.

2) a person who has a knife and uses it as a weapon will hardly ever let you know he has it until you're already stabbed or right before the act.

This is true; a real knife attack is typically a surprise. Excellent point of awareness.

3) A lot of people who have guns aren't very good shots when it come down to pointing a loaded weapon at some one and taking their life. I'm talking about real life not Hollywood where everyone knows how to use a gun and shoot it.

There's an unfortunate trend... The bad guys tend to make incredible shots, from unbelievable positions, while the good guys miss. Murphy seems to have a thing against cops that way... :shrug:

But, y'know, I wouldn't want to bet my life on someone else's poor marksmanship, either.
4) A person who uses a knife as a weopon and are meaning to do harm with it is a special kind of person. They want to get up close and person "See the white of your eyes" (I heard that in a movie once). Its a personal weapon and a lot of time it requires a personal contact with your victim.
[/quote]
Again -- you're making some assumptions that aren't necessarily something I'd want to bet my life on. Most shootings seem to occur at close ranges; snipers aren't that common. Even the classic Western gun fight really tended to take place at a distance of several yards...

We've come up with several other points but I don't want this introduction to be too long. Of course I do understand that guns seem scarier and they are louder but some how I like that. Knifes are sneaker and if you know how to use it right deadlier. But as a martial artist I've been taught to defend against a knife and know that if I see it coming I have a good chance and a gun, well I missed that lesson on how to dodge a bullet after its been shot.

I just want to hear other people take on it and I do realize there is always exceptions for both rules, and a lot depends on the situation.

Try your knife defenses using something like a marking knife or the Shock Knife. Also, take a look at the attacks you're defending against: are they realistic? I'll tell you -- very few knife defenses I've seen really focus on a realistic attack or someone truly intent on hurting you. Many take an initial move, and the attacker freezes...

 

[Don Black]

I’ve heard and read of a number of occasions where perp and cop shoot-outs have occurred at near (under 7 yards) and far distances with many rounds expended & both came away with out a scratch. Strange things happen when the adrenalin is up.
I’ve also seen first-hand the gruesome results of several knife fights.
It’s a forgone conclusion that in most cases (of knife attacks), someone will wind up in the ER, or possibly on a slab.
Knife or gun? If I thought I’d be likely to encounter either during the day, I’d probably just stay in bed.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Now this is about which one would you prefer to go against, gun or knife.

Now let's look at the nature of the beast.

Let's presume we are talking about a fixed bladed knife, say 6 inch blade as there are many sizes to knives and a 6 incher is middle of the road as for knives (Jim Bowie's "Iron Maiden" is on the far right and the boy scout folders are on the far left.)

The knife is a contact weapon. You have to literaly get within touching distance. It cannot go through walls, or glass, or doors. But it is very easy to get, and within it's range it is very deadly. It's also quite easy to conceal.

The gun... Lots and lots of types of guns! So let's just say a generic 10 shot 9mm. Yes there are snubbies, handcannons, rifles, shotguns (just hope that bad guy dosn't have a sawed off 12 and WANTS to kill you on sight), subguns, and well a real lots of different guns. So a 10 shot politically correct 9mm is what we will assume.

Ok a 9mm will go through walls, doors, glass, any chair you stick in the way. It also reaches out over tables and parked cars to strike at a distance. But it goes empty and has to be reloaded. And at touching distance it can be redirected quite easly.

If the person with the weapon has already decided they are going to kill you, without warning, well you are in trouble either way. And if you don't know them by sight, I suggest moving to a monastery.

Question is, what kind of attack?

Robbery where they get up close to you? How close? Touching distance? 10 feet? 20 feet?

Now if the attacker is coming at me at a distance screaming, "I'm gonna kill you", then I'd prefer to go against a knife. If it's at zero range where they stick the weapon in my face, then maybe I'd prefer the attacker use a gun.

So you see, gun or knife, there are situations more favorable to either one and more disadvantagious to either one.

Deaf

 

[seasoned]

Both are good. If I have a gun, I want the knife person at a distance, if I have a knife, I want the gun person very close up.

 

[Archangel M]

most guys who carry guns carry kinves too.

 

[seasoned]

most guys who carry guns carry kinves too.

Add that to some good old MA, and all bases are covered.

 

[searcher]

I have been cut and I have been shot at. I have done some cutting and I have done some shooting back. Which would I choose? I choose to have my gun draw, standing a good distance from the guy with a knife. Trust me, if a person pulls a knife or they draw a gun, you are in some serious trouble. Remember, this is not Boyz In Da Hood and I am not Spike Lee.

If you would choose one over the other, you need to have a wake up call. Both will leave you DEAD. I don't want to be on the receiving end, even if I have on Kevlar. I am not knocking your thread, but both are a no win situation.

 

[Archangel M]

A lot of the debate on this topic seems to revolve around the belief that you can choose the range and arena of combat. You use what works. In general the gun caught on because when there is some distance or obstacle between you with a gun and him with a knife..you can still kill him. He has to get in contact range. Range is your friend. While there are some good CQB techniques out there. If you have a gun you want to get range..cover and shoot. If you have a knife you NEED to stay close.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

From the standpoint of civilian self defense, most of us are woefully ill prepared to be confronted by either a knife wielding assailant or a gunman. Even those with military training are still at a serious disadvantage if they are unarmed and confronted by an armed assailant with either weapon. People who pull guns and/or knives on you are generally willing to use them.

If I had to pick one to be confronted with, as the OP asks, I suppose that I'd choose the knife; distance is your friend and no special training is required to run. And running from a knife wielding assailant is generally a good option.

On the other hand, there really are no good options against a gun. Closing the distance means that you have the opportunity to get your hands on the gun and direct it in such a fashion that it won't be aimed at you. But in closing the distance, the gunman can shoot you, and the closer you get, the better his chances of being able to effectively do so. And if the assailant is doing a drive by, then closing the distance is no longer an option. Also, as others pointed out, a lot of guys who carry guns also carry knives.

Having said all that, I think I'd rather be shot than knifed.

Daniel

 

[Josh Oakley]

All I know is NEVER bring a knife to a gun fight!

ALWAYS bring a knife to a gun fight. That way you still have something when you run out of ammo!

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm not being a smart **** here, but what society have you grown up in, not mine.

Most people who pull a gun in the America I know have one intention, do what they tell you or they'll put one in you. The only ones that pull it as a warning are citizens defending their property or lifes and want to warn you, someone pulling it on you to rob you or kill you are doing just that, pulling it to use it.

Read the papers, watch the news, killings everyday by people with guns, our society of today has no problem with blowing someone away anymore. Those willing to pull a gun don't have to be a good shot, they have 6, 7, 10, 12, 16+ rounds to hit you with, good shot has nothing to do with it, law of averages does and the law of average says, one of those bullets will strike you sooner or later.

A person with a knife is not a special kind of person, they just couldn't afford or steal a gun for their use yet.

I would like to point out also, as a Martial Artist, you have been trained to defend against a knife in a school or controlled setting, be cautious my friend. There is a difference between that and someone outside of that environment. Don't take that wrong, it's the best thing next to the real thing, but don't be fooled into thinking that's the answer to a knife attack, just as anything, Murphy's Law always comes into play.

I think you misunderstood him.....the statement 'do what I tell you to or i'll shoot you' means that you are using the gun as a warning. Pulling it out and shooting them without a request is what he meant. Most folks who are stabbed never knew there was a knife until after they were stabbed.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I’ve heard and read of a number of occasions where perp and cop shoot-outs have occurred at near (under 7 yards) and far distances with many rounds expended & both came away with out a scratch. Strange things happen when the adrenalin is up.
I’ve also seen first-hand the gruesome results of several knife fights.
It’s a forgone conclusion that in most cases (of knife attacks), someone will wind up in the ER, or possibly on a slab.
Knife or gun? If I thought I’d be likely to encounter either during the day, I’d probably just stay in bed.

Allow me to provide you with a perfect example. http://www.bobtuley.com/video/shootout.lg.24.mov

Numerous shots fired by both sides and not one single hit.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Both are good. If I have a gun, I want the knife person at a distance, if I have a knife, I want the gun person very close up.

A man who understands! It's not the weapon, it's knowing it's strengths and weaknesses, and applying it with deliberation, intent and vicious creativity!

 

[tellner]

I must quote the wisdom of the late Hugh Bollers:

Son, if you need a gun carry two of them and a big Bowie knife.
If you don't need a gun at least carry a .25 automatic.
And if you need a gun to go into that bar, don't go into that bar.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Son, if you need a gun carry two of them and a big Bowie knife.
If you don't need a gun at least carry a .25 automatic.
And if you need a gun to go into that bar, don't go into that bar.

EXCELLENT ADVICE!

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

I must quote the wisdom of the late Hugh Bollers:

Son, if you need a gun carry two of them and a big Bowie knife.
If you don't need a gun at least carry a .25 automatic.
And if you need a gun to go into that bar, don't go into that bar.

That pretty much says everything that needs saying on the subject! :burp: