47MartialMan
Master of Arts
I am sorry to start a new thread on this, but it was carrying in another. Does it have to be a neccessity to have good grades to practice martial arts? Or is this a "sales pitch" or "commercialized concept"?
Scholastic grades and Martial Arts.
- Thread starter 47MartialMan
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It could be all of the above but I would hope that it would be a requirement as a charactor builder for the student.47MartialMan said:
Miles
Senior Master
It is not a necessity in my school that the students get good grades in order to train.
However, I do publicly praise those students who have a "B" average or above. To put this in proper context, my classes originated in a Catholic elementary school, so academic achievement has always been stressed.
Miles
However, I do publicly praise those students who have a "B" average or above. To put this in proper context, my classes originated in a Catholic elementary school, so academic achievement has always been stressed.
Miles
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
But to "dangle" martial arts practice in lew of better grades or grade improvement?
Marginal
Senior Master
Well, there's a difference between requiring a specific GPA and claiming that it improves the kid's grades. One just asks the student to apply themselves. The other claims that there's somethign inherent in the practice of a MA that somehow makes 'em smarter/better able to study. Which really isn't the case.
Just like how Boy Scouts is as likely to build self-confidence etc.
Just like how Boy Scouts is as likely to build self-confidence etc.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
I have a 7 year old daughter in "dance school" No way will I threaten or barter her dance lessons for school grades. Her dance instructor doesn't do that either. Why be pressured, (as if practicing the art is not enough), to combine this with scholastic grading?
I have a nephew-very gifted with several musical instruments. He still has a music teacher. My nephew's grades are down. Shall he not be allowed or pressured about learning/practicing music because of low grades?
The martial arts, in one aspect for kids, are about building charecter, not GPA. This is another method to appease parents to continue to have or accredit MA for another amazing need.
I have a nephew-very gifted with several musical instruments. He still has a music teacher. My nephew's grades are down. Shall he not be allowed or pressured about learning/practicing music because of low grades?
The martial arts, in one aspect for kids, are about building charecter, not GPA. This is another method to appease parents to continue to have or accredit MA for another amazing need.
Well to me it a threat when you get to Junior high and above to do extra cirriculum like football, band, spirit team if you do not have good grades you can't compete. So why not start them at a young age so they are not hinder when they hit the Junior high level.
47martialman one thing I notice about your thread you ask a question or comment and then you see how much you can disagree and then when people agree with you you change your mind. Is thiss normal for you or do you always play both side of the fence? If I'm wrong soory in advance
47martialman one thing I notice about your thread you ask a question or comment and then you see how much you can disagree and then when people agree with you you change your mind. Is thiss normal for you or do you always play both side of the fence? If I'm wrong soory in advance
Digger70chall
Yellow Belt
you are not the only one to notice thisterryl965 said:
every thread started seems to have the sole purpose of posting what is wrong with martial arts. Of course things could be better and mostly his generalizations are just that. Certain schools like to run things one way while the school down the street might disagree. It's a luxury that we get to choose where to pursue our martial arts. disclaimer...this post was made under the influence of nyquil
Marginal
Senior Master
47MartialMan's posts tend to be hard to understand, but I don't really see him changing his position in this thread. Pretty much all he's said so far is that he wouldn't dangle an extracirricular activity in front of a kid as a punishment or reward.
He also asked if it's necessary for grades to be used as a grading criteria or if it's just a marketing hook. I haven't seen him say anything different about the question over the course of two threads. (He doesn't think it's a good idea.)
He also asked if it's necessary for grades to be used as a grading criteria or if it's just a marketing hook. I haven't seen him say anything different about the question over the course of two threads. (He doesn't think it's a good idea.)
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
Those jocks still get away with poor grades and compete. The school has to be in competition with other schools. The school with the best all-around gets more attention from the school board. The same with college.terryl965 said:
In all, they get personal tutors also.
Not all are like that. A scant few, I will play "devil's advocate" and post in general to read what others have to say. I recall a couple of other members and mods that do the same on occasion.terryl965 said:
Thanks Marginal....for trying to understand me.....
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
Realize, martial arts practice is a privilege, like driving a car or taking a nice vacation somewhere. I will absolutely hold maintaining decent grades over a student's head as a pre-requisite for practice. It is not necessary to maintain a 4.0 average to practice, but requiring at least a "C" average is, I think, not too much to ask. Especially if the students are not in special ed or anything like that. In other words, they don't have significant emotional or learning problems.
Maintaining good grades is an investment in the child's future. Having great technique is nice, but it won't get you into college or a good paying job. It's one of those things that pays off in the long run.
And yes, I strongly disagree with athletes, high school or college, who are allowed to compete with poor grades. They are only cheating themselves.
Maintaining good grades is an investment in the child's future. Having great technique is nice, but it won't get you into college or a good paying job. It's one of those things that pays off in the long run.
And yes, I strongly disagree with athletes, high school or college, who are allowed to compete with poor grades. They are only cheating themselves.
I agree with MichiganTKD. I would like to add that a "traditional" martial art is considered to be a way of life. Failing classes or getting poor grades (below "C") should not be a way of life and the student should not "rewarded" by being allowed to test, compete, and train if they are failing in one aspect of their life. Balance of the physical (martial arts) and mental (schooling).
While "good" grades are not a requirment for my school, I have had to tell students that if their poor grades continue that they will have to go on a mandatory "break" so that they can get refreshed and be able to pick back up their grades. Most students comply. If you set a standard, clearly define it and let it be known, then your students will meet the standard as long as you consistantly enforce it.
While "good" grades are not a requirment for my school, I have had to tell students that if their poor grades continue that they will have to go on a mandatory "break" so that they can get refreshed and be able to pick back up their grades. Most students comply. If you set a standard, clearly define it and let it be known, then your students will meet the standard as long as you consistantly enforce it.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
But what if a kid cannot get that average? Martial arts are not a privilege, for whom-those only with good grades and the money to pay for lessons? Gee, my daughter has a privilege to dance and my nephew has a privilege to play instruments. As if a GPA is going to make a difference of their performance in these?
Whoa, to the many "drop outs" whom have succeeded in life. Whoa to the many kids who kept up their GPA without martial arts with parents that needed nothing but parenting and no other outside sources like MA.
Where was martial arts and the GPA, 3 decades ago. Then I guess there weren't any on a large scale so there wasn't any higher GPA's. Gee, I am glad my parents sent me to martial arts for charecter and discipline instead of GPA-I would have never been able to go.
I wonder if Einstein studied martial arts and his parents told him he couldn't practice if he didn't keep up those grade?
Peace
Whoa, to the many "drop outs" whom have succeeded in life. Whoa to the many kids who kept up their GPA without martial arts with parents that needed nothing but parenting and no other outside sources like MA.
Where was martial arts and the GPA, 3 decades ago. Then I guess there weren't any on a large scale so there wasn't any higher GPA's. Gee, I am glad my parents sent me to martial arts for charecter and discipline instead of GPA-I would have never been able to go.
I wonder if Einstein studied martial arts and his parents told him he couldn't practice if he didn't keep up those grade?
Peace
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
What are your priorities? As Shu2jack stated, there must be balance between the physical and the mental. I will not accept great technique at the expense of grades any more than I will accept good grades but allowing the body to rust.
Perhaps it is not fair to hold martial arts practice over the student's head in an effort to ensure good grades. However, I think it is perfectly acceptable to say "if you want to practice, you will maintain a "C" average or better." Remember, martial arts practice is a privilege that must be earned. Going to school is a requirement.
If my father had denied my the privilege of practicing because he thought Tae Kwon Do was worthless, I'd have been offended. If he denied me the right because my grades in school were below par, how can I argue that?
If I may ask, what style do you practice and where?
Perhaps it is not fair to hold martial arts practice over the student's head in an effort to ensure good grades. However, I think it is perfectly acceptable to say "if you want to practice, you will maintain a "C" average or better." Remember, martial arts practice is a privilege that must be earned. Going to school is a requirement.
If my father had denied my the privilege of practicing because he thought Tae Kwon Do was worthless, I'd have been offended. If he denied me the right because my grades in school were below par, how can I argue that?
If I may ask, what style do you practice and where?
Marginal
Senior Master
I'm sure most make allowances for mental defects etc. On the other hand, a C average tends to mean little more than that the kids did their homework and got middling scores on the tests. That's not really asking a lot of a student. (Especially when one realizes that not many can manage to earn a living through their MA alone, and most kids will not remain in the ranks for a lifetime....)47MartialMan said:
47MartialMan, I mean no disrespect, but I am going to be blunt.
Barring mental/learning disabilities or special circumstances, how in the world can a child NOT receive at least a "C" (2.0 gpa) average? If you do all of your homework, seek extra help as needed, go to school regularlly and on time, have good classroom behavior, etc, there should be no reason not to get those grades.
I guess it depends on what your art focuses on. If you focus on fighting, who cares about grades? If your parents think learning how to punch or how to play the piano is more important than getting a quality education, then so be it. I teach a martial art that is supposed to give a person the tools to improve physically and mentally. If they can not show me they have the discipline or the maturity to learn martial arts and get decent grades, then I am not doing my job as an instructor if I ignore it. Even if they wanted to teach martial arts for a living, you still need an education to learn how to run a buisness and keep the record books. I can't look a parent in the eyes and say that their child is learning something valuabe in life if I know they are failing in school.
As you can tell, I consider martial art training a privilage and that is probably why our viewpoints differ so much.
Barring mental/learning disabilities or special circumstances, how in the world can a child NOT receive at least a "C" (2.0 gpa) average? If you do all of your homework, seek extra help as needed, go to school regularlly and on time, have good classroom behavior, etc, there should be no reason not to get those grades.
I guess it depends on what your art focuses on. If you focus on fighting, who cares about grades? If your parents think learning how to punch or how to play the piano is more important than getting a quality education, then so be it. I teach a martial art that is supposed to give a person the tools to improve physically and mentally. If they can not show me they have the discipline or the maturity to learn martial arts and get decent grades, then I am not doing my job as an instructor if I ignore it. Even if they wanted to teach martial arts for a living, you still need an education to learn how to run a buisness and keep the record books. I can't look a parent in the eyes and say that their child is learning something valuabe in life if I know they are failing in school.
As you can tell, I consider martial art training a privilage and that is probably why our viewpoints differ so much.
The Kai
Master of Arts
First doe'snt traditional arts teach you to go deeper and seek thijngs without external rewards? Are grades a indication of intelligence?
for high school and college football teams being held to a certain grade level, we all know how that deal works!!
If we were to have eliminated all the folks that were'nt academic enough how many grandmasters would there be left??
Allthough I believe kids should do there best in school, the dojo is a haven from pressures from the outside world. Why stress them out more
It does become a marketing tool
for high school and college football teams being held to a certain grade level, we all know how that deal works!!
If we were to have eliminated all the folks that were'nt academic enough how many grandmasters would there be left??
Allthough I believe kids should do there best in school, the dojo is a haven from pressures from the outside world. Why stress them out more
It does become a marketing tool
This has been an interesting read so far.. I thought I would add my 2 cents.
I have two sons, one in middle school and one in high school. Both are intelligent young men, therefore I demand a certain level from them. I ask them for A's and B's, and let them know that I will accept C's. They will hear from me for less than that... I feel this is their "job".
Now both have interests and hobbies, and we do "fun" things. These are priviliges that they get based on doing their "job".
If they do not do their job, they don't get to do the "fun" things. That's a life lesson.
The youngest was in MA and He understood that it was a privilige.
If his grades dropped he didn't go. Simple as that.
I don't see a problem with a grade requirement, as long as it is know before signing up for the class.
I have two sons, one in middle school and one in high school. Both are intelligent young men, therefore I demand a certain level from them. I ask them for A's and B's, and let them know that I will accept C's. They will hear from me for less than that... I feel this is their "job".
Now both have interests and hobbies, and we do "fun" things. These are priviliges that they get based on doing their "job".
If they do not do their job, they don't get to do the "fun" things. That's a life lesson.
The youngest was in MA and He understood that it was a privilige.
If his grades dropped he didn't go. Simple as that.
I don't see a problem with a grade requirement, as long as it is know before signing up for the class.
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