Scholastic grades and Martial Arts.

[loki09789]

I am sorry to start a new thread on this, but it was carrying in another. Does it have to be a neccessity to have good grades to practice martial arts? Or is this a "sales pitch" or "commercialized concept"?

It is part of a 'character ed' approach to martial arts training. If you want to focus on personal development and martial arts training you can make a grade requirement component. This is no different than scholastic requirements for students to be allowed to play sports or be in plays....this also ties nicely into the oriental respect for education as well.

 

[MJS]

Realize, martial arts practice is a privilege, like driving a car or taking a nice vacation somewhere. I will absolutely hold maintaining decent grades over a student's head as a pre-requisite for practice. It is not necessary to maintain a 4.0 average to practice, but requiring at least a "C" average is, I think, not too much to ask. Especially if the students are not in special ed or anything like that. In other words, they don't have significant emotional or learning problems.
Maintaining good grades is an investment in the child's future. Having great technique is nice, but it won't get you into college or a good paying job. It's one of those things that pays off in the long run.
And yes, I strongly disagree with athletes, high school or college, who are allowed to compete with poor grades. They are only cheating themselves.

Well said! If we look at the all or at the least, the majority of schools, they require players to maintain a certain GPA, otherwise they can't play.

Like MTKD said...driving is also one of those things that is a reward, just like getting an allowance, having a PT job, an extend curfew, etc.

I think its good because it teaches the kids to have some respect and some responsibility for their actions.

Mike

 

[terryl965]

Those jocks still get away with poor grades and compete. The school has to be in competition with other schools. The school with the best all-around gets more attention from the school board. The same with college.
In all, they get personal tutors also.



Not all are like that. A scant few, I will play "devil's advocate" and post in general to read what others have to say. I recall a couple of other members and mods that do the same on occasion.


Thanks Marginal....for trying to understand me.....

47martialman no disrepect. I was a high school teacher and coach and while a certain % got a cake walk as you put it, the team dos'ent without the team the star can't showcase there talent so all those other 15 to 60 kids that are on the team has to keep ther grades up. Please do not put the majority of athletes in the barrel with the rotten eggs.

All I was saying, you tend to sit on the fence and see which way the winds blows, and you are right alot of people tend to play devel advocate. I hope I did not affend you, not my style:asian:

 

[loki09789]

But what if a kid cannot get that average? Martial arts are not a privilege, for whom-those only with good grades and the money to pay for lessons? Gee, my daughter has a privilege to dance and my nephew has a privilege to play instruments. As if a GPA is going to make a difference of their performance in these?

Whoa, to the many "drop outs" whom have succeeded in life. Whoa to the many kids who kept up their GPA without martial arts with parents that needed nothing but parenting and no other outside sources like MA.

Where was martial arts and the GPA, 3 decades ago. Then I guess there weren't any on a large scale so there wasn't any higher GPA's. Gee, I am glad my parents sent me to martial arts for charecter and discipline instead of GPA-I would have never been able to go.

I wonder if Einstein studied martial arts and his parents told him he couldn't practice if he didn't keep up those grade?

Peace

Not all kids are Einsteins, and even Einstein would admit that he could have done with better study habits, work ethic....if he were here .

The point is that the core of a 'liberal arts' education (as is the model of most western schools), is that being a student is a developing childs 'job' and everything else is 'extra.'

Now, I don't think that telling all students in a martial arts school that they can not play if they don't have 85% every marking period is fair, but it isn't unreasonable for students to be passing in order to be attending class, just as most school policies are that 'scholar/athletes' must be passing in order to be allowed to participate. Remember that students are expected to 'live' the martial arts outside of the dojo as well. If students are not striving for personal best outside of the dojo, even if that 'best' is a 70% average in school at the moment, then they are not applying the philosophy and ideas that a 'character ed' based school is teaching.

Celebrating individualized improvements (going from a 70% to an 80%) is what is important to me as a teacher once a student is above the passing level. Not all kids are Honor roll students. Some do better at sports, activities.... than they ever will in school. Fine. BUT, education is still a central focus for kids in this country.

 

[KenpoTess]

We've had in our school.. numerous issues with parents pulling their kids from training because of poor scholastic grades.

Be the student HS, Grade school or College, if the parents are footing the bill, they do have the final word.
We have to respect their decision though we may not agree with it.

In the past, we've had HS kids who's parent's threatened to yank them out, and we've worked with both by utilizing what we had.. College students~ who helped the younger ones with Tutoring.. That helped quite abit. It not only fostered a bond with the tutor and student, It proved to the parents that It's not all about $ coming in or just the MA's.

We can appreciate the fact that being our student populous is still in school, that is the priority. Their studies. If they can't make it to class because of school work - we make an effort to be understanding.
Without our students. We would not be who we are.

 

[loki09789]

We've had in our school.. numerous issues with parents pulling their kids from training because of poor scholastic grades.

Be the student HS, Grade school or College, if the parents are footing the bill, they do have the final word.
We have to respect their decision though we may not agree with it.

In the past, we've had HS kids who's parent's threatened to yank them out, and we've worked with both by utilizing what we had.. College students~ who helped the younger ones with Tutoring.. That helped quite abit. It not only fostered a bond with the tutor and student, It proved to the parents that It's not all about $ coming in or just the MA's.

We can appreciate the fact that being our student populous is still in school, that is the priority. Their studies. If they can't make it to class because of school work - we make an effort to be understanding.
Without our students. We would not be who we are.

And your understanding is good business, good philosophy and good example of being community and educationally minded.

Education is going to happen whether it is formal, informal, martial arts or traditional school settings. When a martial arts school supports education in an active way it is sending the message that students need to be well rounded, whole people.

One of the big criticisms of some of the eastern european 'athlete machine' academies is the lack of well rounded education for the phenoms. They are either recruited or evaluated upon request and then enrolled in these sport schools that spend as many as 10 or more hours a day on fitness, skill and strategic development for a certain sport (basketball is the one I most recently heard about) but only do enough academically to get them to a GED equivalency...what happens if the kid gets hurt, doesn't get recruited....?

 

[The Kai]

Do you honestly think that american college atheltes are getting a "full education"

 

[KenpoTess]

Thanks Paul

Kinda off topic here.. I am venting

I have such a grudge against our Athletic dept~!
Being we teach karate at the University, besides our private classes- UnAccredited classes/sports- get first pick.

Our Karate class is accredited. Yet if there's an event, be it Basketball, Volleyball, Tennis, or even better High School event's which usurp the Gym.. we as an accredited class of 25 plus students, either get kicked out to a tiny classroom full of desks or relegated a dark room off the weight training room across campus.
When we do get to share the Gym (balcony above the main gym -seperated by an electrically raised/lowered tarp divider.. if the Teams or practices are down below, even the cheerleaders.... and we're testing or attempting to teach a class.. it matters not to them.. the coaches raise the volume of the players, the music or the Score blasters..
We go home our voices raw from yelling and the students struggle to hear..
but they are paying for this course and are being graded..
Guess we just don't bring in revenue for the college..
Talk about mixed up priorities.. *shrugs*


Kai, I think it's individualistic.. Some Athletes will excel in school.. others' won't.. it's all dependent on each person. On the whole.. I think it's all over rated and Athletes should have to maintain good grades.. and not be 'grandfathered through a course because they are the Top Gun on the team.. But it's been going on for generations and highly doubt it will cease.

such is politics.. be it in college or government..

just my thoughts

~Tess

 

[The Kai]

Ms Tess
I know it's objective, but why espouse a standard that the orinators of can't honestly keep?
Funakoshi taught mainly to a university crowd-to get Karate away from the "dumb Thug" pigeon hole. But, Motubu-rough and course as he was, was generally acknowledged as a better fighter. So what are we teaching study skills or Karate skills?
Not to downplay education, but if you start with the "way of life" That you, as the insstructor are inforcing, where do you stop? Grades, eating Choices, driving habits, sexual habits. Or do you assume well good grades equals healthy eating, abstince and safe driving
Let them be what they're gonna be
let the parents make judgements

 

[KenpoTess]

Back a couple of semesters ago, Phys Ed was mandatory in college, we gave midterms, finals and we really pushed our students. Then for who knows what reasoning, The U of Shepherd decided to not require Phys Ed to graduate. A 4 yr student needs only a few hour Health and Welfare class to graduate.

(yes there are still some exceptions such as the student going for certain degrees, and phys ed classes are mandatory) This one gets me..
http://www.shepherd.edu/pub_info/catalog/curriculum/coaching.html
who'da thunk it~!!

Our classes went from strictly regimented to a much more enjoyable time for us as Instructors.. now we could 'play more' and not get stressed over student's missing class, or not doing well etc. So in that aspect, it's a Fun class and Not a serious MA class.

Hence we divide our classes from accredited to private training Todd.
I don't like how the educational system is working, I think the pay is lousy, the conditions to train in, not what I want, But it does and this is the ONLY benefit I'm seeing thus far in 5 yrs at the U of Shepherd... Promote our School and the U. Students who are serious about continuing their traing join our school for the Real deal. We don't teach EPAK to the college students, we give them a smattering of self defense tecs, a couple of kicks to work with, some blocks and punches.. just to whet their taste buds.. we're half over in this semester already.. Spring Break is next week.. when they return to classes.. they will spar for the first time. So far we've had 3 join as paying members of our school out of this semester. That's not bad in my book.

We have an older woman who teaches Women's Self Defense at the college also.. She Refuses to allow Any Male in the room.. discrimination for sure.. She has a mentality of a woman scorned and can't get it through her shaded mind that for a female to learn to defend against a male.. they NEED males to 'psdeudo attack' them.. ok.. that's another tirade I don't want to stray to far

~Tess

 

[Makalakumu]

We have an older woman who teaches Women's Self Defense at the college also.. She Refuses to allow Any Male in the room.. discrimination for sure.. She has a mentality of a woman scorned and can't get it through her shaded mind that for a female to learn to defend against a male.. they NEED males to 'psdeudo attack' them.. ok.. that's another tirade I don't want to stray to far

Yeah, I apologize, this is off topic...

For some females, the experience of being abused is so imprinted upon the psyche that facing a male on the first day may be more then they can handle. I teach a women's self defense class at the local YWCA and I have had a few women coming in with bruises.

I lost a student once because I was working some techniques and I threw a half speed punch her direction. She broke down crying and fell to the floor. Needless to say, now all of my female students attack newbies in my class.

upnorthkyosa

 

[senseishane]

I guess to me that school must be a priority and if a student is not taking care of their school work - they should be home doing that rather than being at the dojo. Now, having said that, I also feel that if a student is really struggling in school, but trying very hard, then it might be acceptable to be in class as long as they continue to try to improve. I make it a regular practice to be in touch with the parents and find out how my students are doing. The martial arts aren't only about punch-and-kick, but the development of the whole individual.

Just my .02
senseishane

 

[47MartialMan]

Yeah, I not against the concept. But I question if it is truely needed. Per in the past it was not.


Miyagi:
"Daniel Son- Karate Here" (Points to Head)

"Daniel Son- Karate Here" (Points to Heart)

"Daniel Son- Karate Here" (Points to Report Card)

"Daniel Son- Karate No Here-Go Home" (Points to "C"s)

 

[MichiganTKD]

Somehow, I don't find it hard to believe that Mr. Miyagi would have been concerned about Daniel-san's grades. Don't forget, in Karate Kid II he made Daniel put the money he had won from a breaking contest back into his college fund, the fund Daniel raided to purchase a ticket to Okinawa. Obviously, he felt education was important. In the original, the only reason why he didn't talk about school was there was no time-they had two months to train for the tournament.

 

[Shu2jack]

Depends on what your instructor is trying to teach.

If they are trying to teach reality-based self-defense, then no, a good report card is not needed.

If they are trying to teach you how to fight in the cage, then no, a good report card is not needed.

If they are trying to teach you how to improve yourself or try to teach a way of life, then yes, I think report cards are part of it. If you are failing in school, then you are not learning what I am teaching in class. Dicipline, persistance, integrity.

Report cards may not have been needed in the past, but then again a post-grade school education has never been so important and needed in the past.

Before: Learn to farm. Learn a trade. Learn something to make a living.

Now: More and more jobs are requring a lot of post-high school education to get a well-paying job. If you are going to teach self-defense, learn to defend yourself and survive in society.

 

[ArtlessArt]

This subject seems to breed a lot of disagreement, but when it comes down to it martial arts and scholastic grades (whether grade school or higher education) are intrinsicly linked regardless of what a few of the naysayers beleive. Being a student in college right now I tend to talk to a lot of people, both martial artists and not. But what I notice particularly in martial artists (not in all cases but thats almost unsaid, right?) is they are usually going above and beyond in their school work. Methinks it comes mainly from the discipline that tends to get instilled from learning a martial art, or any sport for that matter. (By the way, those who like to pigeonhole I have a lot of friends that play sports at the UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, thats a major school athletically and scholastically, and they are NOT getting a free ride, so drop that nonsense please.)

I think a reason for this is mainly one who is physically disciplined can tend to concentrate mental energy better as well. From my personal experience this is very true. Lazy people = lazy mind. And as a side note, I've noticed since I've started martial arts my grades have been more likely to be in the A range than before. Coincidence perhaps, but I have plenty of years in school without martial arts where I did not do quite as well.

So there is my heavily opinionated and personally biased opinion on that matter.
p.s. grades ARE an indication of intelligence, because if you aren't willing to work hard for your future (which good grades would help with) I'd imagine you're a bit of a dolt. Especially in higher education, my expensive peice of paper (i.e. diploma) would be worthless if I wasn't working very hard for it, and hadn't worked hard for many years to attain it.

 

[47MartialMan]

So, lower grades equak cannot practice?

 

[ArtlessArt]

I'd say if grades are suffering than you should be spending time in the library and not the training hall. It comes down to how you prioritize, and I think that irregardless school comes before martial arts any day of the week. Hypothetically (because I'm not an instructor) if I had a student suffering in the grade department I would want him to spend more time getting scholastic performance up and less time in the dojo. I'm not saying no practice whatsoever, but to quote the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson "I consider incompetence something to be overcome, rather than accepted" and incompetence or poor performance in school is no different.

 

[47MartialMan]

So if Johnny had a "C" average before, then he should not enroll in martial arts in the first place. Because in accordance, he doesn't have the GPA.

 

[Shu2jack]

I believe most of us were saying that a "C" average was ok. I believe that when we talk about grade requirements, we refer to how they do in school after enroll in martial arts.

If a kid is getting poor grades in school, I will still take him on as a student. Perhaps the training will be good for him and help push him to do better. Some kids have pretty horrible home and school life and all they need is one positive environment and supportive people to help push them to succeed.

Now, if a kid enrolls in martial arts and gets a "B" average in school, then the student's grades start to drop, then they need to take a break from training. I think that is what most of us are talking about.