Saps, coin purses, blackjacks - any experience?

[Dirty Dog]

In New York state just carrying one is the same level of offense as someone who has exploding bullets and intends to use them!

Please tell me what you mean by "exploding bullets" and how the law differs for them as compared to other bullets.

 

[Juany118]

Please tell me what you mean by "exploding bullets" and how the law differs for them as compared to other bullets.

Well NY's law is kinda "odd". It describes an explosive round as one that uses an explosive substance to explode or detonate upon impact. They do exist (Hinckley used home made ones when he shot Reagan) but they are rare not only due to regulations passed after 1981 but because, when compared to expanding bullets, their "explosive" quality is far less reliable.

 

[Kiki]

Well NY's law is kinda "odd". It describes an explosive round as one that uses an explosive substance to explode or detonate upon impact. They do exist (Hinckley used home made ones when he shot Reagan) but they are rare not only due to regulations passed after 1981 but because, when compared to expanding bullets, their "explosive" quality is far less reliable.

Glad you came along because I am certainly not a gun guy. The absurdity of the law just caught my eye when doing my research.
Florida recently legalized slung-shots (essentially). That's the first break saps, using the term broadly, have gotten in a long time.

 

[Russian Whips]

Glad I met Kiki here and on Youtube. Hope this topic stays here to attract other sap enthusiasts to exchange knowlege and ideas.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I kind of fell in love with saps and jacks a while back. From a hopelessly nerdy desire to produce a history on something no one ever has, I now have a manuscript I'm shopping around but good grief that's a long, slow process.

I obviously find them fascinating... used by Teddy Roosevelt, Al Capone, Jack Ruby and of course generations of police, sailors and even soldiers.

Legalities aside (for now), I think they occupy a unique space that has never been filled since they fell away. Something no longer than the length from my outstretched pinky to thumb, weighing less than a pound that can break bones (jack) or produce a KO (sap) with nothing but wrist action (in practiced hands)? That's kind of amazing.

I have an (amateurish) overview and collection vid if anyone's interested...

Didn't come here to self-promote, it's just that I almost fell out of my chair when I stumbled across this thread today.

I have one similar to that brown one with the spring handle and wrist strap (probably the 4th or 5th). Mine is black, the leather is woven, and it was carried by a police officer decades ago (a relative of my first wife).

I also have a book holder-opener that's essentially a slapjack - two lead weights (one at each end) sandwiched between leather.

 

[Kiki]

I have one similar to that brown one with the spring handle and wrist strap (probably the 4th or 5th). Mine is black, the leather is woven, and it was carried by a police officer decades ago (a relative of my first wife).

I also have a book holder-opener that's essentially a slapjack - two lead weights (one at each end) sandwiched between leather.

Cool (on the first point)

Book holder- Just a few years back a 52 year old (female) teacher was led away from the Tampa airport in handcuffs by police because she had one of those.
Of course the poor woman had no idea what was going on and the cops got skewered in the press.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Cool (on the first point)

Book holder- Just a few years back a 52 year old (female) teacher was led away from the Tampa airport in handcuffs by police because she had one of those.
Of course the poor woman had no idea what was going on and the cops got skewered in the press.

I can imagine. Poor lady got her Levenger box, opened it, and had no idea it was a perfect two-ended slapjack.

I'll dig up my blackjack and send you a pic of it. A very nice specimen, and in usable condition after I oiled the VERY dry leather.

 

[mograph]

I also have a book holder-opener that's essentially a slapjack - two lead weights (one at each end) sandwiched between leather.

One of these things?

https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Leather-Book-Weight-D1130/dp/B000Y4WWZ8

 

[Gerry Seymour]

One of these things?

https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Leather-Book-Weight-D1130/dp/B000Y4WWZ8

Pretty much. Mine's a bit shorter, but the same exact idea.

 

[Buka]

Well NY's law is kinda "odd". It describes an explosive round as one that uses an explosive substance to explode or detonate upon impact. They do exist (Hinckley used home made ones when he shot Reagan) but they are rare not only due to regulations passed after 1981 but because, when compared to expanding bullets, their "explosive" quality is far less reliable.

Juany, would a Glaser Safety Slug fall under that category?

"Book weight"...that's kind of funny.

 

[Juany118]

Juany, would a Glaser Safety Slug fall under that category?

"Book weight"...that's kind of funny.

Nope. That round is a frangible, it doesn't have an explosive substance inside, it is essentially a hollow round filled with shrapnel that uses a polymer to contain the shrapnel. The law literally refers to round that have some sort of chemical explosive.

 

[Buka]

Nope. That round is a frangible, it doesn't have an explosive substance inside, it is essentially a hollow round filled with shrapnel that uses a polymer to contain the shrapnel. The law literally refers to round that have some sort of chemical explosive.

It's my favorite round, has been for a long time. Just wanted to check the law there. Thanks, bro.

 

[Juany118]

It's my favorite round, has been for a long time. Just wanted to check the law there. Thanks, bro.

No worries. I use a similar round in the pistol I have in my night stand in PA. IMO they are awesome for home defense because they will hurt the target big time bit won't penetrate into the next room.

The Glaser was actually developed, afaik, due to issues and fears regarding over penetration and the skin of an aircraft vs damaging the bad guy.

Frangible bullet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Buka]

No worries. I use a similar round in the pistol I have in my night stand in PA. IMO they are awesome for home defense because they will hurt the target big time bit won't penetrate into the next room.

The Glaser was actually developed, afaik, due to issues and fears regarding over penetration and the skin of an aircraft vs damaging the bad guy.

Frangible bullet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's the only round I carry when I fly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here's a picture of my blackjack, with my book weight/slapjack next to it. I included a picture of the blackjack in my hand for sizing.

 

[Kiki]

Here's a picture of my blackjack, with my book weight/slapjack next to it. I included a picture of the blackjack in my hand for sizing.

Nice condition!

Swinging a jack flail style from a lanyard like that one is an option that adds scary power to a swing.
Also, the braided leather on the striking head would likely produce nasty cuts.
It's kind of surprising how destructive those little things can be.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nice condition!

Swinging a jack flail style from a lanyard like that one is an option that adds scary power to a swing.
Also, the braided leather on the striking head would likely produce nasty cuts.
It's kind of surprising how destructive those little things can be.

It is in surprisingly good condition, especially considering it was carried daily by a beat cop back in the day. I've tried to be gentle with it, given the age of the leather (even after restoring it with a good oil), but I have taken a few swings with it, and that spring is surprisingly effective. If this was legal, I think it might be my EDC weapon.

 

[Russian Whips]

I am back with some more (if anyone was missing )))

 

[Tez3]

'Russian slapper'

If you are marketing to a worldwide market you really, really do not want to call it that. It's a couple of things that you don't want people associating with your product.

 

[Russian Whips]

OOOps... Its sap of course... Sap case to be exact