Run away from no-mask people

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Monkey Turned Wolf

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(1) Equivalent? No. Comparable? Absolutely.
Anything is comparable if you try hard enough. But I think that there's a very big difference here, when the issue back then was a lack of representation, and we have that representation now. It's apples to oranges.

(2) Inherently a bad thing? When done out of fear and blind faith, Absolutely!
It's not blind faith. All the information is out there, about what is and isn't helpful. Making an informed decision to limit interactions and wear masks when you do interact isn't blind faith at all.

As for what I follow or do not - I do not recognize a gvt as having any "authority" over how i care for my own safety. If I am not ACTIVELY interfering with someone else (no, breathing doesn't count). Then I consider laws pertaining to my activity illegitimate. I use the word "laws" loosely as there have been very few (if any) mask "laws" simply E.O.'s and "mandates" which is an even bigger abuse of "authority" as only the legislative branch has the power to create "law".
First, that was the reason I put laws/recommendations. Because for the most part these haven't been laws, but I believe in some places (maybe not the US, but in other countries as well) there have been. So I included both. Second, it's not only related to your own safety. Masks are used specifically to help other people, and you are correct, no law can interfere with you breathing. They can however, interfere with you breathing on someone else, if breathing on them can cause harm to said person.

To me, driving is a good example of this.

I don't feel that seatbelts should be mandatory, with the exception of children under an age where they can't make informed decisions. Mainly because we should be able to determine for ourselves if we want to take the risks involved (however I also feel insurances/governments shouldn't have to cover the expense of someone getting into an accident without a seatbelt, as now you are putting a financial burden in the form of taxes and/or higher insurance premiums for your own carelessness).

I do, however, feel that blowing a stop sign or red light should be illegal. Because when you're doing those activities, you are actively endangering others even if 99 times out of 100 you're not causing damage, and the potential result of that damage is death of another human being.

Masks are much more similar to the second example. You're not likely to cause anyone else's death by not wearing one, but you are actively taking that risk with someone else's life, and therefore a law can be made about it. And even if you somehow convince me that A) a mask is not helpful in spreading the disease, and B) You having a contagious disease does not increase the chance others will get the same contagious disease, then the first example would still apply. In which case, not wearing a mask should be grounds for having to pay for all the treatment out of pocket, rather than impact other people's insurance premiums and/or taxes. Is that something you're willing to pay out of pocket for, personally?
 

geezer

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2017 there were 79,000 deaths from Flu, in the U.S. 2019 there were 22,000 deaths from Flu, in the U.S. Look it up. Pretty amazing how we just beat Flu eh? I mean that is apx a 70% reduction. Amazing. Wonder how we did that.

Wait a minute. I´m not sure I´m following you here.

There are many strains of seasonal flu, and we don´t get hit hard by the same strain every year. In addition, many people get flu vaccines, but the vaccines that are produced are formulated in advance based on a "best guess" of which strain seems most likely to hit us the following winter (based on data about what's already circulating in the southern hemisphere). Sometimes they get it right and the vaccine is reasonably effective, other times they get it wrong, and the vaccine is next to useless.

So considering all that, of course common seasonal flu deaths fluctuate widely from year to year. So what´s your point?

If we want to get to a level of "herd immunity" without completely overwhelming our health-care system and having massive fatality rates, the logical thing is to try to slow down the spread of the virus at least until we can get a substantial portion of the population vaccinated ...perhaps by late spring or early summer. So, how do we slow down contagion? Masks, distancing, hand-washing, and common sense can't hurt.
 

JowGaWolf

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but they are still tons better than america, britain france germany etc.
so wrobg or not, they are still doibg better than a lit of countries in preventibg deaths

A lot of the countries who are doing bad are the same countries that are complaining about wearing masks. Most of the countries who didn't complain about wearing masks are doing better than Sweden.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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2017 there were 79,000 deaths from Flu, in the U.S.

2019 there were 22,000 deaths from Flu, in the U.S.

Look it up.

Pretty amazing how we just beat Flu eh? I mean that is apx a 70% reduction. Amazing. Wonder how we did that.
I'm not sure what your point of this is. But I just looked it up. Here are the deaths per year according to the CDC by flu since the 2011-2012 season, rounded to the nearest hundred.

10-11: 36.7k
11-12: 12.4k
12-13: 42.6k
13-14: 37.9k
14-15: 51.4k
15-16: 22.7k
16-17: 38.2k
17-18: 61.1k
18-19: 34.2k
19-20: Estimated 22k

So you (or whomever made this point that you're repeating) took the largest number out of the last decade to compare with this year. Not really genuine if what you're going for is showing a decreasing trend, as there seem to be random years that have spikes. And there could easily be a flu spike next year or the year after, and 22k is not out of the ordinary for other years this decade.
 

JowGaWolf

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I'm not sure what your point of this is. But I just looked it up. Here are the deaths per year according to the CDC by flu since the 2011-2012 season, rounded to the nearest hundred.

10-11: 36.7k
11-12: 12.4k
12-13: 42.6k
13-14: 37.9k
14-15: 51.4k
15-16: 22.7k
16-17: 38.2k
17-18: 61.1k
18-19: 34.2k
19-20: Estimated 22k

So you (or whomever made this point that you're repeating) took the largest number out of the last decade to compare with this year. Not really genuine if what you're going for is showing a decreasing trend, as there seem to be random years that have spikes. And there could easily be a flu spike next year or the year after, and 22k is not out of the ordinary for other years this decade.
Some people really need to reconsider their information sources and find one that's more reliable.
 

Saheim

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Actually I simply Googled it the number I got was 79k for 2017 and 22k for 2019.

Now couple that with that fact that I personally know people who had to get into a heated argument, with hospital staff, to avoid a "positive" result being put on their child's medical record PRIOR to the results coming back (which turned out NEGATIVE btw) and the "covid death" numbers start to make more sense.

Right now, a geezer with flu like symptoms dies, how do you think it gets logged? More numbers means more money.

If a business does not want me coming in without a mask, they have every right to require one, it is their business. On public property, if someone is concerned about my lack of a mask, they are welcome to take off running. Apparently, it works good, the OP hasn't gotten it yet (afaik).
 

JowGaWolf

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Right now, a geezer with flu like symptoms dies, how do you think it gets logged? More numbers means more money.
This is incorrect. More numbers doesn't mean more money. They aren't going to treat you for Covid if you don't have it. That's just a waste of time, medicine, and space that could be used for someone who actually has Covid.

. On public property, if someone is concerned about my lack of a mask, they are welcome to take off running. Apparently, it works good, the OP hasn't gotten it yet (afaik).
Mentalities like yours is why things are often worse than they really need to be.
 

JowGaWolf

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Actually I simply Googled it the number I got was 79k for 2017 and 22k for 2019.

Now couple that with that fact that I personally know people who had to get into a heated argument, with hospital staff, to avoid a "positive" result being put on their child's medical record PRIOR to the results coming back (which turned out NEGATIVE btw) and the "covid death" numbers start to make more sense.

Right now, a geezer with flu like symptoms dies, how do you think it gets logged? More numbers means more money.

If a business does not want me coming in without a mask, they have every right to require one, it is their business. On public property, if someone is concerned about my lack of a mask, they are welcome to take off running. Apparently, it works good, the OP hasn't gotten it yet (afaik).
I remember people who think the same way as you once thought.
1. Covid-19 is just like the flu
2. Covid -19 is hoax
3. Covid -19 has had fewer deaths than the flu. Why don't we show the same concern about the flu.
4. There will be a Vaccine for Covid -19 in 2 or 3 months (back in may)
5. The virus will go away in the Summer
6. People are over reacting
7. Covid-19 doesn't affect young people
8. Herd immunity works

So far all have been shown to be wrong by the actual events that are occurring daily. When it all comes down to it.

I'm curious to know what you are doing to help reduce the spread of Covid-19.
 

JowGaWolf

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You miss the one - the U.S. is "rounding the corner".
yep. you are right.. I forgot that one.. "Rounding the Corner" With 100, 000+ daily cases and hospitals over capacity, I think it's safe that one is wrong too.

The only thing one can learn from all of that information is that those who believed those things don't have accurate or reliable information and that whatever they say about Covid should be quickly ignored.

I forgot one more. "If Biden Wins, then we won't hear anything else about Covid." My co-worker told me that one.

People say that more Covid cases = more money for doctors. I wonder why we don't hear. More Covid Deaths = More money for the funeral homes.
 

Saheim

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I remember people who think the same way as you once thought.
1. Covid-19 is just like the flu
2. Covid -19 is hoax
3. Covid -19 has had fewer deaths than the flu. Why don't we show the same concern about the flu.
4. There will be a Vaccine for Covid -19 in 2 or 3 months (back in may)
5. The virus will go away in the Summer
6. People are over reacting
7. Covid-19 doesn't affect young people
8. Herd immunity works

So far all have been shown to be wrong by the actual events that are occurring daily. When it all comes down to it.

I'm curious to know what you are doing to help reduce the spread of Covid-19.

At one of my jobs, I am required to wear a mask and social distance. Outside of work, I occasionally wear one (dependingon where I am shopping). Beyond that, I am not doing much. I don't get too close to folks anyway and practice good hygien. I am pretty durable, I will roll the dice. Plus, my doctor is pretty sure I have already had it once and was fine. YMMV
 

JowGaWolf

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I have not had my hair cut since January, 2020. Does anybody go to barber shop, or dentist this year?
I cut my own hair. Only way to mess up a bald head is to leave patches of hair lol.

I scheduled my dentist and my son's dentist appointment before things got bad in Georgia. I knew ahead of time that I didn't want to take a chance during the winter months when people are already getting sick from cold and flu.


I've been to the dentist twice. I was nervous about it the first time, but once I got inside, it was easy to see that they were taking it serious. My son has been once. So at the dentist and the doctors office, the only ones allowed in is the patient that they are seeing. They are strict about everyone's safety and that's what I like to see. Some of the precautions from those businesses who take Covid-19 seriously have been impressive.

Some have been really bad, unfortunately many of the Hispanic shops are the worst place to go. There's a Hispanic grocery close to where I live, where no one wears a mask. That grocery was always busy pre-Covid-19 and they were busy during the earlier months before people wore masks. But from observations, it looks as if people rather shop at businesses that require everyone to wear a mask. There is another grocery that is popular with Hispanics and they are busy as well, but they require masks and everyone wears them.

Other than that, it looks like more people here are definitely taking it more seriously now
 

jobo

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A lot of the countries who are doing bad are the same countries that are complaining about wearing masks. Most of the countries who didn't complain about wearing masks are doing better than Sweden.
im bit sure what your saying here, are you sugesting that complaining about madks is more dangeroud than not wearing masks

coz germany , whoch is a near neibour of sweden has been largly wraring masks, where as swden has actively discouraged wearibg masks, but germany has a higher death rate per million ,

that takes some expkaining if masks actually work, can you explain it ?
 

dvcochran

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Yeah it's amazing that the things that help prevent covid-19 also help prevent the spread of influenza. Turns out, washing your hands frequently, social distancing, wearing a mask and not going out when you're sick are pretty effective strategies with the flu.

Or are you talking about just the normal fluctuations that occur year to year depending upon how virulent the strain of flu is, and how effective the shot is? Honestly, your point is a little silly either way, but I'm not sure which brand of crazy you're endorsing.
Honestly, your inference is silly as well. You do not find it even a little ironic that the year to year deaths are strikingly similar even with 'new' virus going around that is SO deadly? C'mon man. You surely aren't naive enough to think there is the real possibility this thing, or something like it, has been going around for years/decades/centuries. I think this is the point @Saheim is trying to make. Especially if you factor on countries like the US, England, and Sweden where masks have not been prevalent. And factor in most of Asia, where masks have been used for years, and the infection rates are still high. Call it natural selection or whatever you want. To quote Einstein "mother nature is a fickle *****".
 

dvcochran

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I'm not sure what your point of this is. But I just looked it up. Here are the deaths per year according to the CDC by flu since the 2011-2012 season, rounded to the nearest hundred.

10-11: 36.7k
11-12: 12.4k
12-13: 42.6k
13-14: 37.9k
14-15: 51.4k
15-16: 22.7k
16-17: 38.2k
17-18: 61.1k
18-19: 34.2k
19-20: Estimated 22k

So you (or whomever made this point that you're repeating) took the largest number out of the last decade to compare with this year. Not really genuine if what you're going for is showing a decreasing trend, as there seem to be random years that have spikes. And there could easily be a flu spike next year or the year after, and 22k is not out of the ordinary for other years this decade.

Okay then; lets take 11-12, 15-16, & 19-20. Strikingly Low compared to other 'normal' years in recent history. Whichever side of the argument you want to be on the numbers do not lie. And again, this is the year with the 'deadly' virus lurking around. Plus it is virtually impossible to have anything close to accurate, disseminating numbers this year, since a heavy portion of the numbers are classified Covid, whether it is/was the actual illness or not. In aggregate the numbers do not lie.
 

JowGaWolf

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im bit sure what your saying here, are you sugesting that complaining about madks is more dangeroud than not wearing masks

coz germany , whoch is a near neibour of sweden has been largly wraring masks, where as swden has actively discouraged wearibg masks, but germany has a higher death rate per million ,

that takes some expkaining if masks actually work, can you explain it ?
According to John Hopkins. Germany has 19 deaths per 100K people Sweeden has 65 deaths per 100K people.
 

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Threads like this, I just remind myself that we need to take care of those who are too foolish to do it themselves.
According to John Hopkins. Germany has 19 deaths per 100K people Sweeden has 65 deaths per 100K people.
don't confuse them with facts. :)
 

JowGaWolf

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Threads like this, I just remind myself that we need to take care of those who are too foolish to do it themselves.
don't confuse them with facts. :)
I'll try to see if I can find some more numbers on this one. Maybe one with a date
 
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