Reverse hook kick questions

Bill Mattocks

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We worked on a kicking technique in the dojo last night that is not an Isshin-Ryu kick, but it seems it could be quite effective; if I can understand it properly and apply it well. At the moment, I'm not doing either one.

The technique was called a 'reverse hook kick,' but from Google, it does not appear to resemble other reverse hook kicks I've seen. It is not a TKD reverse hook kick; we don't turn our body. It most resembles the TKD 'hook kick' like in this video:


But unlike the video, we deliver it lower, not to the head, and it 'wraps around' the opponent's body to strike approximately liver or spleen high.

This is done from a fighting position, not facing the opponent. The rear leg steps forward and behind the lead leg, as if we were about to deliver a side kick with the lead leg. But instead of opening the hips and delivering a Yoko Geri, we lift the lead leg, shoot past the opponent to the direction we are facing, and 'hook' the kick back into the opponent using the kakato (heel) as the impact point. The kick 'wraps around' the opponent's body. We practiced this on a standing tall bag. It's not a high kick; it looks as though it would be delivered into the opponent's liver or spleen in the small of their back.

Anyone familiar with this kick? What's it called and where does it come from? And how does one generate power with this kick? Thanks!
 
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Cyriacus

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See, now Im confused.
Ive never learnt it aimed at the Head - We normally use it on the Legs, or to hit the Sides.

That being said, I theorise it would be to hit someone off to your side perhaps?
 

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Well it is to me at least a simple back leg hook kick that you are doing. It is meant for the face or head as enough power is generated with the hips and pivot to KO or stun someone. However since you are using it in point sparring it can be effective to the body as it wraps around the guard to strike the body, and point. This is why you are being taught to use it to the body as well as the head if you can get up that high. This is my theroy anyways.
 

Big Don

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I like the hook kick. I use it for kidneys, bellies and groins.
 

Buka

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I used to use the hook kick a lot. Front leg, mostly, but sometimes off the back. (both legs) I only threw it to the head. There are a lot of different angles to the kick, and different timings. A person has to be flexible through the hips for it to be successful for a head kick. It's primarilly a younger person's kick.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Well it is to me at least a simple back leg hook kick that you are doing. It is meant for the face or head as enough power is generated with the hips and pivot to KO or stun someone. However since you are using it in point sparring it can be effective to the body as it wraps around the guard to strike the body, and point. This is why you are being taught to use it to the body as well as the head if you can get up that high. This is my theroy anyways.

Actually, I don't think I could use it for point sparring; most of the tournament rules I've read say kicks to the back are not permitted. It would be effective, though!
 
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Bill Mattocks

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I like the hook kick. I use it for kidneys, bellies and groins.

How do you generate power with it? Is it with the retraction of the heel as if you were chambering a kick, or the hips, or what? I didn't feel like I was generating any power on the kick the other night.
 

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Its a good kick.

In my school we mainly target the head with it but it requires a good set up as I have always found it to ba a bit telegraphic and it opens the groin up quite a bit. Speaking of which, this movement will ruin a persons day if you land it in their happy spot.

I tend to use it with a step back motion while breaking close range with an opponent, although it works prettty well after a shove to create distance from matching leads.

As to where the kick came from, I couldn't tell ya. I was first exposed to it when I was taking a system called Han Foo Wa, essentially JKD with belts and a lot of Danzan Ryu Throwing. The founder of that system is a man named Bill Shaw. He has a website and if you can find some of his videos, the ones entitled "Deceptive Kicking" are outstanding on setting up kicks like this.

Hope that helps,
Mark
 

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How do you generate power with it? Is it with the retraction of the heel as if you were chambering a kick, or the hips, or what? I didn't feel like I was generating any power on the kick the other night.


Both. Pulling the hip as you retract the foot generates a lot of power.

This technique takes a bit to get comfortable with. I tell my students its a "Eureka" tech. You struggle and struggle with it and then all of once it kinda clicks. I initiate it as if I am throwing a side kick offset a bit, then whip the foot and hip into position.

Note also that where you hit the target will effect how you return to stance. A head shot with this tends to carry through the target while a body shot rebounds. Play around with it and you'll get the feel of it.

As a side note, my students and I use this in tournaments a lot. Alter the striking surface to the bottom of the foot and you can develop a good deal of controll to avoind dq. The tech works well , with a slight range adjustment, to the face over the leading shoulder in matched stances as well. Clearing their lead arm with a downward slapping motion while sliding the rear foot up is a agreat set up for this.

Mark
 

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How do you generate power with it? Is it with the retraction of the heel as if you were chambering a kick, or the hips, or what? I didn't feel like I was generating any power on the kick the other night.

Huh. I've never thought about that, honestly. I think being a big guy and having heavy legs helps...
Back up mass, baby, back up mass
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Both. Pulling the hip as you retract the foot generates a lot of power.

This technique takes a bit to get comfortable with. I tell my students its a "Eureka" tech. You struggle and struggle with it and then all of once it kinda clicks. I initiate it as if I am throwing a side kick offset a bit, then whip the foot and hip into position.

Note also that where you hit the target will effect how you return to stance. A head shot with this tends to carry through the target while a body shot rebounds. Play around with it and you'll get the feel of it.

As a side note, my students and I use this in tournaments a lot. Alter the striking surface to the bottom of the foot and you can develop a good deal of controll to avoind dq. The tech works well , with a slight range adjustment, to the face over the leading shoulder in matched stances as well. Clearing their lead arm with a downward slapping motion while sliding the rear foot up is a agreat set up for this.

Mark

Thanks! I am guessing to use this in tournament, you'd be applying to the opponent's chest instead of their back, right? We were kicking the bag and visualizing 'wrapping around' the opponent's back and nailing him in the liver or spleen with the heel; this could be effective in self-defense, but not legal in any point sparring tournaments I'm aware of. I didn't think about just applying it to the front of the opponent and going after the tender vittles. I have had some practice using a similar kick with the flat of the foot, so I think I know what you mean there. Hmmm, there's some potential there for point-sparring, yes! I can see using it right off the line; let them raise up that leading foot as they almost always do, then lean back and hook kick into their chest with your lead leg and smack 'em with the flat of your foot. Might have to move in to get the right distance, though. Cool!
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Huh. I've never thought about that, honestly. I think being a big guy and having heavy legs helps...
Back up mass, baby, back up mass

Well, I'm not exactly dainty. But seriously, I could seem to get my bulk behind it like I could, say, a mawashi geri. It actually seemed my weight was working against me on this kick.
 

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What you're describing does sound exactly like a TKD front leg hook kick. We don't ALWAYS kick to the head, you know. :)

Power is built both by pulling the hip back while the leg is straight, and by pulling the heel back during the hooking portion of the kick. It's a very powerful kick, especially when you add a spin to it. And it's an excellent way to get around the defense. You throw the kick from somewhat closer than normal so that when you flex the knee, the leg wraps around the block. Wrapping it around the block to strike the back of the head is both effective and legal in tourneys that allow targeting the head. After all, lots of high roundhouse kicks and punches also strike this same part of the head.

It can be used as a counter to a lot of strikes. For example. You're in a right foot lead, your opponent a left. He throws a punch with his right hand, opening his ribs on that side. You lean your bodyn away from his strike to evade it and throw the hook kick to those exposed ribs.

Watch some videos of Bill Wallace to see an expert using it.

This may be the only kick that is actually easier to throw as a spinning kick.
 

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well hook kick to the head in a sparring situation can work well, but I would not use such a kick in self defense. I might at knees, ankles and up to the groin maybe. But I would not kick higher then the groin. but then I am not a real hook kick fan for my own use.
 

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I love the hook kick, it would be one of my couple of favourite kicks, and if it lands it does a lot of damage. In sparring it works well after you have thrown a few side kicks. Just throw a hook kick in after a few sidekicks and the opponent just thinks its another side kick and then it snaps back at the last second.
 

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Bill,

Hook kick - general:
This kick seems to have been covered well by others, I would reiterate it can be a powerful and knock out kick. You can choose to use the sole of the foot in point sparing (as a slap) or if in full contact - or if you were comfortable or had the option of using in SD/street, you would use the heel.

When I was in TKD this was used a lot as per the video technique, however, interestingly when I switched to karate and goju ryu, the hook kick was favoured by the sensei in my club in tournament fighting and for him to devastating effect.

Combos:
This can be a very deceptive kick - one of my favourite combos was to throw up a front kick snap kick to the side of the head (say right temple/side of jaw) then if blocked or evaded immediately throw up again with same motion, same front leg but turn it into the hook kick at last second and connect to left side of jaw with heel, that = knock out or rocks opponent like hell. Unlike the video or in my TKD days, in my goju ryu training we chamber the knee even higher and make the lead leg/knee come right up the middle/centre line of the opponent, which when you throw a couple of punches first is quite deceptive in itself and is often missed or can be misinterpreted as an out of rage knee or what is to be turned into a front/stomp kick. When competing I have had a reasonable high success rate when using the above combo. I still laugh a bit about one of my first karate fights when I pulled this off (more than ten years back now); it was point/sport karate so I used the sole of the foot and effected a mighty slap to the side of opponents face; he did not go down of course but the look of surprise (we were ok buddies actually from the same club) on his face was priceless! : )

Also, as noted by Shihan smurf, this can be used beautifully when you move in for a punch and either the opponent moves back or you step slightly (only needs to be a slight step back for space if you chamber knee high) and then use the hook to the jaw. Depending on the competition rules and if you are allowed to maintain contact, ie hold legs/appendages of opponent or sweep, as also said below, I have used this effectively when grabbing the lead hand/arm of a punch thrown sloppily (or a block) or left out there too long and then come up and over the opponents held arm/wrist from the outside and connect to their head/face. I have only tried this with lighter/weaker/inexperienced opponents.

I know it's movie footage but check out Bruce Lee’s execution of the hook kick in say, Fists of Fury or Enter the Dragon to see the kind of speed and power that can be generated! There is also legitimate training footage of Lee practising this kick which is equally impressive. Anyway, it is not obviously going to have the same power behind it as a rear leg roundhouse but then that is not what the kick is about - the upside it is a much quicker/closer distance kick. Personally I generate most of the knock out power from the contraction of the hamstring in whipping the heel in the backwards arc into the target.

Again, as others have said, I have also used this to wind an opponent by striking the solar plexus with heel. Have also used this in a reverse spinning manner - but would only do this in training, I generally don’t like turning my back and opening up rear of leg (posterior cruciate ligament/hammies/calf) to leg attacks.

The one point I would say, is that while I have only been kicked in the groin by a counter once while executing this (a real shocker!), I do feel that if you are unlucky your groin is always open to a well timed counter/simultaneous kick from your opponent.

Usability:
Another point, sorry (!), is that I do not agree that this necessarily requires a lot of flexibility or is a “younger person’s” kick. My fight training sensei is late forties and the club/overall sensei who still kicks high is in his fifties (ok maybe that is still “young for some!....). If you focus more on chambering your knee high as can be and then extend the leg - for front kick - or hook the leg back, flexibility issues, particularly along groin regions, are reduce when coupled with regular dynamic stretching routines (rather than just static stretching). I have talked about this in length on some link ages back for Tez about high kicks and dynamic stretching exercise (I explain the exercises involved). These exercises allow the muscle groups the range of motion required and also the ability to “open” the pelvis (in a purely platonic context!!) to avoid strains/torn muscles. If you do these morning before work and preferably at night before bed on a regular basis you put your body in a position so that you can effectively execute high/head kicks “cold” (ie kicks to 95% execution without warm-up in street/unprepared situations). There was some old documentary about the Korean military or police who do this so that they can always do head kicks without fear of damage or need to limber up (the need for which kind of defeats the purpose of any martial kick!).

The other good thing with these stretching techniques is that when you are competing in knock-out or round-robin tournaments where you may need to fight three or four times on a night and may have issues otherwise staying “warm” between bouts; exercising the dynamic stretches in rest periods and just before entering the ring can overcome this problem.

I have used this hook kick once outside of tournament in a fight at a party when I was younger on a mate’s back deck. But unlike many, I have no issue using high kicks in SD or brawls if there is opportunity - pending environment/situation.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Combos:
This can be a very deceptive kick - one of my favourite combos was to throw up a front kick snap kick to the side of the head (say right temple/side of jaw) then if blocked or evaded immediately throw up again with same motion, same front leg but turn it into the hook kick at last second and connect to left side of jaw with heel, that = knock out or rocks opponent like hell. Unlike the video or in my TKD days, in my goju ryu training we chamber the knee even higher and make the lead leg/knee come right up the middle/centre line of the opponent, which when you throw a couple of punches first is quite deceptive in itself and is often missed or can be misinterpreted as an out of rage knee or what is to be turned into a front/stomp kick. When competing I have had a reasonable high success rate when using the above combo. I still laugh a bit about one of my first karate fights when I pulled this off (more than ten years back now); it was point/sport karate so I used the sole of the foot and effected a mighty slap to the side of opponents face; he did not go down of course but the look of surprise (we were ok buddies actually from the same club) on his face was priceless! : )

Thank you! I like that description. We do a combo kick that now you mention it, seems similar in one way...we also begin with a front snap kick, but then without setting the leg down, we turn the hip over so that we are almost facing away from the opponent (keeping the eyes on him of course) and then with the kicking leg knee facing DOWN, we throw it like an uppercut punch to the head. Sensei calls that a 'walking away' kick, as it almost looks as though we threw the front snap, missed, and now we're going to turn and go away, but suddenly, the leg comes up from underneath even though we're facing away from the opponent by now. Alternatively, we can perform the second kick as if it were an 'ax kick' but again with the knee facing down and not up; we throw up the second kick aimed to go over the opponent's shoulder, then bring it crashing down on their collarbone, striking with the instep or the top of our foot on their collarbone. I actually managed to perform that once in competition and won the point; I also had to stop the kick in mid-air to get the 'halo' point and not actually damage his collarbone. It's not my strongest suit, and I don't normally kick that high, but I do try.

I will practice what you've described, thanks again!
 

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Bill,

Hook kick - general:
This kick seems to have been covered well by others, I would reiterate it can be a powerful and knock out kick. You can choose to use the sole of the foot in point sparing (as a slap) or if in full contact - or if you were comfortable or had the option of using in SD/street, you would use the heel.

When I was in TKD this was used a lot as per the video technique, however, interestingly when I switched to karate and goju ryu, the hook kick was favoured by the sensei in my club in tournament fighting and for him to devastating effect.

Combos:
This can be a very deceptive kick - one of my favourite combos was to throw up a front kick snap kick to the side of the head (say right temple/side of jaw) then if blocked or evaded immediately throw up again with same motion, same front leg but turn it into the hook kick at last second and connect to left side of jaw with heel, that = knock out or rocks opponent like hell. Unlike the video or in my TKD days, in my goju ryu training we chamber the knee even higher and make the lead leg/knee come right up the middle/centre line of the opponent, which when you throw a couple of punches first is quite deceptive in itself and is often missed or can be misinterpreted as an out of rage knee or what is to be turned into a front/stomp kick. When competing I have had a reasonable high success rate when using the above combo. I still laugh a bit about one of my first karate fights when I pulled this off (more than ten years back now); it was point/sport karate so I used the sole of the foot and effected a mighty slap to the side of opponents face; he did not go down of course but the look of surprise (we were ok buddies actually from the same club) on his face was priceless! : )

Also, as noted by Shihan smurf, this can be used beautifully when you move in for a punch and either the opponent moves back or you step slightly (only needs to be a slight step back for space if you chamber knee high) and then use the hook to the jaw. Depending on the competition rules and if you are allowed to maintain contact, ie hold legs/appendages of opponent or sweep, as also said below, I have used this effectively when grabbing the lead hand/arm of a punch thrown sloppily (or a block) or left out there too long and then come up and over the opponents held arm/wrist from the outside and connect to their head/face. I have only tried this with lighter/weaker/inexperienced opponents.

I know it's movie footage but check out Bruce Lee’s execution of the hook kick in say, Fists of Fury or Enter the Dragon to see the kind of speed and power that can be generated! There is also legitimate training footage of Lee practising this kick which is equally impressive. Anyway, it is not obviously going to have the same power behind it as a rear leg roundhouse but then that is not what the kick is about - the upside it is a much quicker/closer distance kick. Personally I generate most of the knock out power from the contraction of the hamstring in whipping the heel in the backwards arc into the target.

Again, as others have said, I have also used this to wind an opponent by striking the solar plexus with heel. Have also used this in a reverse spinning manner - but would only do this in training, I generally don’t like turning my back and opening up rear of leg (posterior cruciate ligament/hammies/calf) to leg attacks.

The one point I would say, is that while I have only been kicked in the groin by a counter once while executing this (a real shocker!), I do feel that if you are unlucky your groin is always open to a well timed counter/simultaneous kick from your opponent.

Usability:
Another point, sorry (!), is that I do not agree that this necessarily requires a lot of flexibility or is a “younger person’s” kick. My fight training sensei is late forties and the club/overall sensei who still kicks high is in his fifties (ok maybe that is still “young for some!....). If you focus more on chambering your knee high as can be and then extend the leg - for front kick - or hook the leg back, flexibility issues, particularly along groin regions, are reduce when coupled with regular dynamic stretching routines (rather than just static stretching). I have talked about this in length on some link ages back for Tez about high kicks and dynamic stretching exercise (I explain the exercises involved). These exercises allow the muscle groups the range of motion required and also the ability to “open” the pelvis (in a purely platonic context!!) to avoid strains/torn muscles. If you do these morning before work and preferably at night before bed on a regular basis you put your body in a position so that you can effectively execute high/head kicks “cold” (ie kicks to 95% execution without warm-up in street/unprepared situations). There was some old documentary about the Korean military or police who do this so that they can always do head kicks without fear of damage or need to limber up (the need for which kind of defeats the purpose of any martial kick!).

The other good thing with these stretching techniques is that when you are competing in knock-out or round-robin tournaments where you may need to fight three or four times on a night and may have issues otherwise staying “warm” between bouts; exercising the dynamic stretches in rest periods and just before entering the ring can overcome this problem.

I have used this hook kick once outside of tournament in a fight at a party when I was younger on a mate’s back deck. But unlike many, I have no issue using high kicks in SD or brawls if there is opportunity - pending environment/situation.

Good points, brother.
Let me rephrase - while it's viable, and often easy, for older guys to throw that hook kick, it's usually never picked up well by an older student who first begins training in his forties. There's exceptions, but they are few and far between.

The biggest mistake I see with head hook kicks are people throw them from too far away. It's a close in kick. It's shorter than a roundhouse or sidekick, due to the bend in the leg, but a lot of kickers throw them at sidekick and roundhouse range.

I worked on hook kicks with Bill Wallace a lot over the years. I remember him always telling students, "If you want to see a nice hook kick, teach a new white belt a sidekick. He'll throw a really nice hook by mistake. (refering to the pull back after the kick)
I think he had something there.
 

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It is a very deceptive kick and I've found that's its greatest attribute.

As for power, doing this as a spin kick is about as big a circle as your body can make and it can be one of your most powerful kicks in that regard but without a spin you're dependent on your speed depositing the kinetic energy with penetration so that the energy doesn't rebound and cause you to "push" yourself.

The reason this is so difficult is due to how far away your striking foot is from your pivoting foot and you're trying to apply force on the same angle that you pivot. Some of the force inevitably rebounds and since you're so conveniently placed to pivot, and since every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction you spin the other direction usually with enough force to expose your back.

If you can angle the strike with more verticle inclination the force will rebound in a somewhat different direction and can be compensated for by an upright torso. This does turn it into a bit more of an axe kick. Another, riskier way I've found is to "lean into" the kick or do a bit of a hop before you connect.
 

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