Questioning the efficacy of Kata

[drop bear]

Many others have commented since this post of yours. I was not sure if you were posing this as a question, in that you are not sure, or if you were asserting this as your view?

I guess it is possible to have completely non-contact "sparring" as a kind of drill or exercise. I have never seen it. Kind of like "shadow sparring"? Have come across much "light" contact with youngsters or juniors but normally with more experience comes more control and ability (and familiarity with taking and deflecting and avoiding harder hits) and so the contact ratchets up.

My view is non-contact, or even light contact (while of great value for starting off or for safely trying/experimenting with some strikes or takedowns unfamiliar with) is a world apart from contact sparring. For a start and with karate/kickboxing as an example. Sport karate tournaments (ie, light contact points awarded) do allow one to use skills and to hone great timing and speed but in my experience, if entirely focused on, it leads to very bad fighting technique and strategy for when faced with full contact tournament or a "gloves-off" street fight or possibly even SD situation.

I have always preferred full contact tournaments but have gone into clicker/sport tournaments for enjoyment. I have experienced and seen a hell of a lot of techniques thrown without adequate guard (particularly head cover) to counters employed and the norm is by far to throw strikes with less damage effect for getting your point in. Time and again I have been hit with punches to torso with my own head strike connecting split seconds after. I have seen so many fighters with great technical skill bouncing around on their feet and edging in slowly to duck in and out with a reverse torso punch and this resembles nothing of any of the "real" bad intention fights I have been in or witnessed. It also hardly resembles full contact tournaments. And it's the last kind of go-to mind set I would want if jumped on the street or otherwise in an SD situation.

Train hard, fight hard...stay hard(?) : )
Os

The game changes. What is high percentage in light contact is not always high percentage in full contact.

You can train light but you are loosing an important element. Like I can train bjj. But it is a different game to judo.

Now whether or not to train it will depend on whether you believe you can train small adjustments and not get messed up because of it. The old can I train karate and kung fu together? Question.

Which I don't see a problem with.

 

[Tez3]

Rubbish. I don't accept dogma or heresay from any system. I accept evidence from any system. That is an open mind.

You don't understand.

Yes, dear.

 

[Koshiki]

I'm not an advocate that everyone regularly train full contact; that's just not realistic for the average person with a moderate interest in martial arts as a hobby. I do believe that anyone who intends to consider themselves a serious and effective fighter needs at least a bit of full contact experience, preferably cross-style and with un-trained buddies as well.

For any martial arts hobbyist though, I think moderate contact is still necessary for you to have any idea of what you're really doing. While you're light-contact punch and your full contact punch should have the same technique, if you never practice it live, there's a good chance it won't be.

Aside from the obvious, that a solid tap to the forehead with a fist is different on your hand then a strong, full-power reverse, that that pretty wrist-lock to arm-bar is pretty hard if the other guy is really fighting it and hitting with his free hand, that that flurry of patty-tappy strikes isn't very effective, meanwhile the other guy just hauls back and slugs you once....

Aside from all that testing of technique, tactics, and strategy, the first time you really get your nose cracked is an eye-opener (eye-closer??), and you want that initial, "oh wow, this hurts oh my god he actually hit me! I'm BLEEDING!" to happen when your opponent is friendly, not when that moment of startled pause lands you in the ER.


I do have a serious gripe about no-contact sparring, aside from what I've already mentioned. Every form of sparring has trade-offs, compromises from realism that must be made to able to train regularly and with some degree of safety. For example, most sport arts forbid many very unpleasant or damaging techniques, like head kicks to a grounded opponent, finger breaks, etc, and usually use some assortment of padded gear. A padded punch reacts nothing like a bare punch, for the striker or strikee. (I like to have people hit me with a glove on in the forehead, as hard as they feel like, have them take the glove off and do it again. It drives home the point that the gloves protect your hands in exactly the same amount as they protect the target.)

However, the trade-off in no-contact sparring is the worst possible trade-off. It's the trade-off of distancing. In a striking art, distancing and positioning are the most important things. (not unlike much grappling) If you train to fight 10 inches farther apart than you should, you will not automatically be able to make the switch when misfortune calls. You might be able to pick up the speed, to follow through on technique, to hit with more power, etc, the trade-offs from other sparring games, but distance is something that needs to be very accurate, and very intuitive.

If you train to kick, stopping two inches from your opponent's body, then when you need to hit hard, you will still stop two inches short. Or worse, actually hit at the right distance, find you developed bad balance habits, and stagger backward out of control...

I don't want to denigrate anyone who enjoys no-contact sparring, and I'm sure it is great fun and a wonderful aerobic workout and timing and reactions drill, but as effective, real-world training, I would be tempted to label it a liability, rather than an asset.

 

[Koshiki]

...Not sure what any of this has to do with Kata, though. The Kata I'm familiar with all pretty much require at least moderate contact, since they're not remotely related to the stand-five-feet-apart-and-hit-at-each-other style of sparring we seem to be discussing...