Punchbag.

[MJS]

Shall I get a punchbag?
Advice please.

Back to the original question that Whitebelt asked. IMO, a heavybag is a great piece of equipment to have. There are many options, ranging from a Wavemaster to one that actually hangs. Wavemasters are good. I've used them, but the downside is, is that they have a tendancy to slide alot when hit. If you go that route, you might want to invest in a mat to put under it. As far as the hanging ones go. They need to be hung by something that will offer enough support. If you do not have something strong enough to support it, you can get one that is on a stand.

Good luck in your search! :ultracool

Mike

 

[Adept]

The heavy bag is one of them that causes damage to the body and should be avoided.

Paul Genge

I have seen absolutely zero evidence to support this (provided the bag is being used correctly). I'm always open to new theories and information though, so if you have some medical journals handy that outline the damage done by working on the bag, or some instances of boxers who have suffered damage through working on the bag, then I'd be interested to read it.

I mean, with the thousands of boxers and other martial artists using heavy bags all the time, there should be lots of cases of these injuries.

 

[searcher]

Since you want a standing bag only you are very limited. The Wavemaster XXL is a fine standup and you may want to check out Ringside and Title boxing. They have free standing bags and they are not limited to heavy bags only. I do reccommend that you get some quality boxing gloves and handwraps before you get going to hard, they will help with your workout.

Paul Grenge, your friends that have injured themselves on bags, do they know how to properly hit or arwe they just going ballistic on it? I would like to know what you have that supports your claims that bag work in harmful, for the one doing it.

 

[Marginal]

http://www.ringside.com/store/prodinfo_punchingbags.asp?number=FHB&variation=&aitem=34&mitem=123

Yep. Wavemaster's not the only game in town, and it's definitely not the best standing heavy bag.

 

[swiftpete]

I have a chinning bar in the doorway of my spare room and have fitted a 3 foot bag to the bar. Its not perfect as you cant move round it too well admittedly, but its certainly better than nothing and as its inside, i look at it every time i'm upstairs so hit it all the time!

For straightforward punching and elbowing its cool anyway and cant move about or slide etc.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

http://www.ringside.com/store/prodinfo_punchingbags.asp?number=FHB&variation=&aitem=34&mitem=123

Yep. Wavemaster's not the only game in town, and it's definitely not the best standing heavy bag.

Thanks for the link. That's a cool looking bag and definitely looks like it's manufactured with better craftsmanship than my particular Wavemaster was. I think the original poster now has some good answers to his questions:

1. Get a bag, if possible.
2. You can either get a freestanding or hanging bag.
3. Do some shopping before you buy (I've become so attached to my Wavemaster that I didn't realize until reading this thread that there were better but more expensive bags now being made).
4. You can be very creative and improvise to fit your specific situation
5. Use proper technique and common sense to avoid injury.

 

[Marginal]

One other option, there are also freestanding bag holders. (Typically they range from $99 to $250+) TKO, Ringside, and Centruy make various versions. Couple that with a regular heavy bag, and you have options for the future if you later find an opportunity to hang the bag.

 

[Paul Genge]

Mike,

The reason that the clip shows body shots is because this is the main thrust of the article. As for taking shots to the jaw I will try to put a clip of this work together in the next couple of weeks.

As for the drill being done when static the reason for this is because in it we are showing the progression of drills used to isolate and work on this area of the system. In sparing you do get hit on the move, but the principles of breathing are the same.

As for taking shots to the legs are you talking about the sort of conditioning a Thai boxer goes through?

If you are we prefer to train our legs to move smartly and if possible avoid the kick. If this fails because we are either to slow or do not notic it coming before it is too late there are several ways of moving that lesson the effect. One is to move away from the kick while causing it to slope. The angle causes some of the power to be lost as does moving beyond where the kick is at it's optimum.

Another stratergy is to collapse the leg using a spiril motion towards the ground. Because the leg is not offering resistance to the kick alot of the power is again lost. A bi-product of this kind of work is the the lower leg of the kicker gets trapped and then sat on. It is very dangerous and has to be done with care in training for the obvious reasons.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK)

 

[MJS]

Mike,

The reason that the clip shows body shots is because this is the main thrust of the article. As for taking shots to the jaw I will try to put a clip of this work together in the next couple of weeks.

That would be great. I'll look forward to seeing it!

As for the drill being done when static the reason for this is because in it we are showing the progression of drills used to isolate and work on this area of the system. In sparing you do get hit on the move, but the principles of breathing are the same.

So if I'm understanding this right, its more of a focus on the breathing over the body position. I might be getting confused because of this:

Keep good posture. The back should be straight and the pelvis slightly tipped underneath you to prevent the lower back from being curved.

As for taking shots to the legs are you talking about the sort of conditioning a Thai boxer goes through?

When talking about hits to the chin and midsection, I got the impression that your focus was on the breathing aspect. I'm not referring to the conditioning of the legs, but more of how you absorb the Thai kick to the leg. You're standing there, absorbing the shots to the midsection, do you absorb the kick to the leg in the same fashion?

If you are we prefer to train our legs to move smartly and if possible avoid the kick. If this fails because we are either to slow or do not notic it coming before it is too late there are several ways of moving that lesson the effect. One is to move away from the kick while causing it to slope. The angle causes some of the power to be lost as does moving beyond where the kick is at it's optimum.

Another stratergy is to collapse the leg using a spiril motion towards the ground. Because the leg is not offering resistance to the kick alot of the power is again lost. A bi-product of this kind of work is the the lower leg of the kicker gets trapped and then sat on. It is very dangerous and has to be done with care in training for the obvious reasons.

These 2 quotes most likely answered my question.


Thanks for the reply! :ultracool

Mike

 

[mj-hi-yah]

. Here is an article on how this works. It includes a video clip of a person with 3 years of boxing a Thai boxing hitting full as hard as he can and how breathing is used to deal with the strike.

In the future I will do an article on our approach to learning to hit effectively. There are a number of drills we use to learn to hit. The only piece of equipment we use is focus pads. We use this to practice open hand strikes that would be aimed at the head and face.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Art Northwest (UK)

Paul thank you for sharing this. It was a very interesting article and I look forward to anything further you do on effective striking.

MJ :asian:

 

[Paul Genge]

Mike,


You are correct that the breathing is the main focus. Form is important to everything we do in the system. Having our posture as described in the system encourages many things. By describing this posture in the article I was trying to prevent people doubling up as a flinch reflex to the though of the strike making contact.

In other drills it is used to encourage the student to move as a whole unit, but that is another subject.....

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest

 

[MJS]

Paul,

Thanks again for taking the time to reply! :asian:

Anytime someone attempts to explain something online, there is always going to be that confusion. I've always been a believer in the phrase "Seeing and feeling is believing!" Trying to get that 'mental picture' online is not always easy to do. If I ever have the chance to train with someone who does Systema, I'm sure things would be much clearer.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[still learning]

Hello, If you want to improve your punching, kicking and other striking movements the "BAG" will give you the impact you are looking for.

Every professional fighters do bag training...Why? because it is the next best thing to hitting for real.

Also relieves tension....................Get one!!!!! ............Aloha

 

[Paul Genge]

Adept,

I spoke on this subject with a student of mine today. He used to box at a high level and was offered the chance to turn pro. When I mentioned that using a heavy bag causes damage he agreed. His knuckles and wrists in particular cause him problems.

This is from a person who knows how to use a heavy bag correctly. The difference is he has reached middle age and now has started to feel where some of the damage has occurred.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Ats Northwest (UK)

 

[Marginal]

Adept,

I spoke on this subject with a student of mine today. He used to box at a high level and was offered the chance to turn pro. When I mentioned that using a heavy bag causes damage he agreed. His knuckles and wrists in particular cause him problems.

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He's not suffering from concussions due to hitting the heavy bag though?

 

[searcher]

Adept,

I spoke on this subject with a student of mine today. He used to box at a high level and was offered the chance to turn pro. When I mentioned that using a heavy bag causes damage he agreed. His knuckles and wrists in particular cause him problems.

This is from a person who knows how to use a heavy bag correctly. The difference is he has reached middle age and now has started to feel where some of the damage has occurred.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Ats Northwest (UK)

I have boxed or coached boxing for several yaers and this is the first I have heard of boxers having problems with their wrists or hands. It sounds like your student did not have the proper gloves or handwraps to help with wrist stability. It is essential that a boxer have strong forearms to be able to punch correctly. It is just like training other parts of your body, if done correctly it will keep you from getting injured. Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. I will keep it in mind while training my students.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Adept,

I spoke on this subject with a student of mine today. He used to box at a high level and was offered the chance to turn pro. When I mentioned that using a heavy bag causes damage he agreed. His knuckles and wrists in particular cause him problems.

This is from a person who knows how to use a heavy bag correctly. The difference is he has reached middle age and now has started to feel where some of the damage has occurred.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Ats Northwest (UK)

Paul, while I think you have some great points and have provided us with excellent information and links - I feel there is a GREAT flaw in you logic. This thread was started by a TKD yellow belt who wanted some help in learning how to kick and punch correctly. There is a HUGE difference between the part-time hobbyist and the professional or near professional athlete. In truth, darn near any competitive sport will cause some damage to the body over time. Think of the multitude gymnasts, judoka, football players, tennis players etc. who have arthritis and other side effects of their professional careers. You are taking an extreme example and trying to make it a generalization. I would much rather have a TKD yellow belt wail on a kicking pad, Wavemaster or even heavy bag than have him/her practice contact upon their fellow beginners.

True, caution must be excercised, but a dogmatic adherence to a "no bag" rule seems to be a narrow viewpoint.

Again, I respect your points and agree with many and I also appreciate reading your posts on MT.