Proper etiquette

[chrispillertkd]

How do you handle proper ediquette inside your school, do you have them bow in and out? Do they bow before entering the workout area? We still do but alot of people tell me this is to old school to do anymore and it is not proper in today era.

What, pray tell, makes it too old school and not proper for today? I'd be very interested in their reasoning for saying this.

At my instructor's school we bow in at the beginning and end of class to the instructor. At the beginning of class we bow to a picture of Gen. Choi that hangs in the Dojang. At the end of class we bow to both the instructor and the highest ranking student. We bow before and after class when entering or leaving the training floor (or any time we do so if we have to leave the class for some reason). We bow to each other before we work with a partner and after we conclude working with them.

When shaking hands we support the elbow of the right hand with the palm of the left hand. We wait for the senior in rank to offer their hand first (something I need to impress the importance of more on some students ).

When giving something to a senior rank (or someone who is older than you) we do so with both hands. We receive things being given to us by seniors in rank or age with both hands.

We always address seniors in rank or age by "sir" or "ma'am." Heck, my instructor, who is a 7th dan, refers to his juniors as "sir" or "ma'am", "mr." or "mrs." so I don't really think it's a big deal for me to do so, either. (Ever see a 7th dan call a white belt "Mr. Smith"? Not too common from what I've seen.)

I open the door for my instructors when walking with them. I carry their bag if I see them on the way into the school and when I leave the school with them. I turn my head when drinking if we are eating together. I fill their glass for them if they need something to drink. They've never once told me I had to do these things. I want to do them as a sign of respect and gratitude for teaching me Taekwon-Do for the last 23 years. It's a debt I can't ever pay off, but at least I can make a bit of a downpayment on it.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Laurentkd]

What, pray tell, makes it too old school and not proper for today? I'd be very interested in their reasoning for saying this.

At my instructor's school we bow in at the beginning and end of class to the instructor. At the beginning of class we bow to a picture of Gen. Choi that hangs in the Dojang. At the end of class we bow to both the instructor and the highest ranking student. We bow before and after class when entering or leaving the training floor (or any time we do so if we have to leave the class for some reason). We bow to each other before we work with a partner and after we conclude working with them.

When shaking hands we support the elbow of the right hand with the palm of the left hand. We wait for the senior in rank to offer their hand first (something I need to impress the importance of more on some students ).

When giving something to a senior rank (or someone who is older than you) we do so with both hands. We receive things being given to us by seniors in rank or age with both hands.

We always address seniors in rank or age by "sir" or "ma'am." Heck, my instructor, who is a 7th dan, refers to his juniors as "sir" or "ma'am", "mr." or "mrs." so I don't really think it's a big deal for me to do so, either. (Ever see a 7th dan call a white belt "Mr. Smith"? Not too common from what I've seen.)

I open the door for my instructors when walking with them. I carry their bag if I see them on the way into the school and when I leave the school with them. I turn my head when drinking if we are eating together. I fill their glass for them if they need something to drink. They've never once told me I had to do these things. I want to do them as a sign of respect and gratitude for teaching me Taekwon-Do for the last 23 years. It's a debt I can't ever pay off, but at least I can make a bit of a downpayment on it.

Pax,

Chris

Sounds like you have a lot of the "old ways" down! Our school in general does the bowing as others have said, but all the extras you mentioned are up to the individual students who pay enough attention to see them- no one is taught them. Only a few care enough to go the extra mile, but I really think it shows a lot. Of course, I only make sure my master's drink is always refilled so he doesn't take mine

 

[bigmoe]

If you dont want to bow and show respect for the art take kickboxing. Karate is about tradition to me. If you cant do a move in a kata do you not teach it.

 

[Cirdan]

We bow when entering or leaving the training area. Also training usually starts and ensd with two bows from a sitting position and a short period of meditation. However depending on the instructor (and if we are pressed for time) we sometimes do a single standing bow.

 

[Stac3y]

I do American Karate, not Tae Kwon Do, but this is a kind of general question. We bow when entering and leaving the classroom and bow in at the beginning of class and out at the end. The kids also bow when they check in with the person taking attendance outside the classroom door. All adults (not just the instructors) are referred to with an honorific (Mr, Ms, Miss, Mrs) and their last name by everyone (students, instructors, etc.). Instructors are never called "master," "sensei," or anything other than their names.

Bowing to your sparring partner is optional for adults, but most of us do it anyway. The kids are required to bow to their instructors when sparring and to touch gloves and compliment each other ("Good match!") at the end of a match. Gloating or boasting are sharply reprimanded by most instructors.

During class, any students not actively engaged in some sort of exercise are supposed to be in standing attention stance; or, if told to sit, in seated attention stance. If a student is called up to demonstrate a technique with the instructor, student and instructor bow to each other after the demonstration. Bowing when greeting another student or an instructor is optional.

Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?

No, but our sensei will give us pushups if we disrespect weapons like sais or bo staffs by dropping them on the floor.

 

[Cirdan]

Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?

Never heard of that tradition before. We use the belt for anything.. jumping rope, for stretching, even putting it on the floor and stepping on it for some exercises. We do however mildly discourage students from washing the belt.

 

[jim777]

We are definitely a 'bow happy' school, as someone earlier in the thread put it. And you better not comer out of that bow (at the beginning or end of class) before the Black Belts if you don't want 50 extra pushups either

Personally, I love it. I love all the old school ways and actions that help to remind you of where you are, and why you are there. There are more of them in my Japanese classes than in the TKD classes, but I like them all regardless.

 

[searcher]

Iceman hit it on the head. We do it exactly the same.

 

[Twin Fist]

we bow comming into or leaving the school

we start and end class by bowing to the instructor and the flag

we bow to each other when doing partner work

we bow a lot.

anyone wants to tell me "you cant do that these days" will be invited to find another class

 

[K31]

Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?

That takes me back to my Judo days. You did not disrespect your belt by dropping it or dragging it on the floor. We were taught right off how to fold our uniform and tie the belt around it.

In the dojang where I'm currently a student, I've frequently seen student forget their belt. In my Judo class this would have gotten you 50 pushups the first time it happened. In this dojang they threaten to give you pushups the next time. I've seen students drag their belts and throw their belts on the floor. The instructor threatened to take them away (demote them). The only time it's permissible to consciously place your belt on the floor is when you are being promoted. Basically because there is no other place to put it.

I'm glad my latest TKD instructor enforces etiquette more than the last. It stops a lot of the horseplay and I find myself being more polite in my everyday life. Plus, I kind of missed it. An MA just isn't an MA without etiquette.

 

[Mark Lynn]

In my class I teach the students in their first class that we.
1) Bow before entering the room (our training area), this is to remind them this is a TKD class and not day care.
2) When I call out "line up" they are to line up in desending rank order in full uniforms, then partial uniforms and then no uniforms. And they are to be in a straight line not a curvy or wavy line.
3) Then bow in. I also explain what the bow means.
4) When I give them a mid way water break we again bow out and then the kids again bow out of the room and back in again and then we bow back in class.
5) When I call line up we again line up as we had before and bow out.

I also make them raise their hand if they have a question or a need (bathroom). When I tell them to sit, I'm making them sit cross legged and they are not to lean against any of the equipment etc. etc.

We bow when I have them demonstrate something with me before we begin and then when we end, before they rejoin their line. Before they spar or do drills we bow to show respect and then when we finish we bow again.

I refer to the adults as Mr. Miss. sometimes interjecting their first name especially if their last name is hard to pronounce. I have an asistant who I'll have students refer to as sensei Zack (his first name) only because he is a junior and I believe he is to young for the term Mr. But I believe that the students should show repsect for his black belt rank. But I have the students call me Mr. Lynn.

The kids enjoy calling Zack "sensei Zack" and they pay him the same respect that they pay other instructors. If I have him or any student a lead role (leading a drill, teaching someone etc. etc.) then everyone is to pay them respect and give them their attention as they would give me or Zack.

When meeting/greeting people I find myself giving them a slight bow out of respect and courtesty. But I don't make my students do that.

 

[Stac3y]

In the dojang where I'm currently a student, I've frequently seen student forget their belt. In my Judo class this would have gotten you 50 pushups the first time it happened. In this dojang they threaten to give you pushups the next time.

Students who show up without their belts where I train are given the choice of wearing a white belt and training at the back of the class with the white belts, or going home.

 

[granfire]

Students who show up without their belts where I train are given the choice of wearing a white belt and training at the back of the class with the white belts, or going home.

oohhhhhh niceeeeeee

We only have the kids do push ups....(though sometimes the parentsought to do them)

 

[Errant108]

Well young grasshoper before the term in korea came about sensei was used alot for a Korean Karate Master but then once again I am old and can remember something YEA!!!!

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

[granfire]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here.

It was in reference to somebody complaining that in a Korean MA the instructor would be called by a Japanese title.

 

[dancingalone]

Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?

I think too many schools focus too much on the trappings of martial arts, rather than the substance. While I do use a (greatly reduced) color belt system, I harp on the fact that it's the skill that counts rather than the belt. When I was coming up the ranks, I was always a bit embarrassed to line up ahead of a certain classmate of mine since he was far more skilled than me.

What does it matter whether you let the belt drop on the floor or not? I teach out of a custom dojo built inside my home. Changing space is at a premium so it's impractical to hold onto rituals like the one you describe, particularly since they're inauthentic to begin with.

 

[Errant108]

It was in reference to somebody complaining that in a Korean MA the instructor would be called by a Japanese title.

Yes, and I still don't understand exactly what Terry's response was supposed to mean.

 

[jim777]

I HATE having my belt hit the floor, but that's just me. My TKD dojang has no rules against it. In my Seido dojo it is frowned upon as impolite, but no hard rule there either.

If you show up for class without your belt in TKD, you line up at the end of the line, after the white belts, and you win a luxurious (they're really nice!) set of 50 pushups as well

In Seido, because its the Honbu they have belts at the desk so you can borrow one if you leave yours at home accidentally.

 

[jim777]

Yes, and I still don't understand exactly what Terry's response was supposed to mean.

Without putting words in the Master's mouth, I believe he was saying that calling your TKD Master "sensei" used to be a much more common and acceptable thing, and that he remembers those days because he has been around TKD for so long.

Again though, I don't really want to presume to speak for him, so my apologies if I got that wrong.