Pre-engagement arm placement?

[Danny T]

If in a situation where you feel threatened and may have to physically defend yourself what is your pre-engagement arm placement or position?
Is it more of a arms up and open with the hand opens non-threatening structure or is it more in a 'normal' wing chun centerline placement?
Or do you use something different? What is your reason for utilizing that position?

 

[mook jong man]

If in a situation where you feel threatened and may have to physically defend yourself what is your pre-engagement arm placement or position?
Is it more of a arms up and open with the hand opens non-threatening structure or is it more in a 'normal' wing chun centerline placement?
Or do you use something different? What is your reason for utilizing that position?

I've done quite a lot of this "Fence" type scenario training in the past , so mine is very similar to this picture.
But maybe my hands are a tad closer to the centerline.

I do it because it is very close to a Wing Chun guard except the palms are down. , so it is only a minimal change.
Having said that , you still have to be able to fight from there , so you must make it a part of you and start a lot of your normal Wing Chun drills from this position.

 

[mook jong man]

I also like this one too.
The Jack Benny , named after this guy.
Although I keep my lower hand on my elbow , not trapped behind my arm.
It's not as good as the other one I posted , because it doesn't provide an immediate barrier , but at least one of your hands is up around your face ready to attack or defend.
I've used it before when I wasn't quite sure yet whether the other person was a threat or not and something was about to kick off.

 

[Punchy]

In addition to the ones described by mook, I think the crossed arms position is a decent ready position. Not with the arms weaved inside one another but loosely held in front of the body. This can very quickly become lan sau, fak sau, etc.


I copied this from my facebook page on this very topic :


Many martial artists think that if they adopt a strong fighting stance when they're confronted, their opponent will see that they are a formidable adversary, and possibly back down. But that's not always the best tactic to apply in the initial stages of a confrontation.

Why not? Well in terms of body-language, a fighting stance is an aggressive statement... a threatening gesture. So when one person adopts a fighting stance, the other person will often feel compelled to adopt a fighting stance as well, to either protect themselves or to save face.

This is why adopting a fighting stance in the early stages of a confrontation can actually escalate the level of violence - unnecessarily. And you might find that the law in most places requires you to retreat from a potentially violent confrontation if possible... and standing your ground in a fighting stance doesn't demonstrate any attempt to do that. In fact it shows just the opposite; you are entering into the fight of your own free will.

Also, adopting a fighting stance informs your opponent that you have some level of training. This could cause them to adjust their attack strategy, use a weapon, or call for back up.

In fact, if any of your opponent's friends think that your fighting stance makes you look too threatening, these days they're just as likely to step out of the crowd and hit you over the head with a bottle.

In the video, (http://youtu.be/sDyQKzLysro) the WT fighter has adapted his stance to look non- threatening. This doesn’t tip his hand to his would be attacker. It may cause the aggressor to back off if he sees that you don’t want to fight. It gives any onlookers the appearance that you didn’t want any part of this.
All while still having your hands on your center, poised and ready for action.

 

[mook jong man]

In addition to the ones described by mook, I think the crossed arms position is a decent ready position. Not with the arms weaved inside one another but loosely held in front of the body. This can very quickly become lan sau, fak sau, etc.


I copied this from my facebook page on this very topic :


Many martial artists think that if they adopt a strong fighting stance when they're confronted, their opponent will see that they are a formidable adversary, and possibly back down. But that's not always the best tactic to apply in the initial stages of a confrontation.

Why not? Well in terms of body-language, a fighting stance is an aggressive statement... a threatening gesture. So when one person adopts a fighting stance, the other person will often feel compelled to adopt a fighting stance as well, to either protect themselves or to save face.

This is why adopting a fighting stance in the early stages of a confrontation can actually escalate the level of violence - unnecessarily. And you might find that the law in most places requires you to retreat from a potentially violent confrontation if possible... and standing your ground in a fighting stance doesn't demonstrate any attempt to do that. In fact it shows just the opposite; you are entering into the fight of your own free will.

Also, adopting a fighting stance informs your opponent that you have some level of training. This could cause them to adjust their attack strategy, use a weapon, or call for back up.

In fact, if any of your opponent's friends think that your fighting stance makes you look too threatening, these days they're just as likely to step out of the crowd and hit you over the head with a bottle.

In the video, (http://youtu.be/sDyQKzLysro) the WT fighter has adapted his stance to look non- threatening. This doesn’t tip his hand to his would be attacker. It may cause the aggressor to back off if he sees that you don’t want to fight. It gives any onlookers the appearance that you didn’t want any part of this.
All while still having your hands on your center, poised and ready for action.

Yeah Yak , that's another good one.
I remember one of my old instructors drilling it into our heads never to stand around with the arms weaved inside each other because your arms could be trapped .

But with the arms placed one over top of the other like the lan sau , a myriad of Wing Chun attacks and defences can be launched from this position , and interestingly enough if you just extend the arms out a bit you have a Wing Chun guard.

I reckon the best ones , are the ones that are a slight modification of our guard , or one that closely mimics the arm positions in our forms.
Because we have performed these movements thousands of times before in the course of training our forms we are more comfortable with them.

 

[K-man]

Initially, if you have sufficient distance, hand by the sides is my preferred option. Assuming someone has taken an aggressive attitude against you, I have found that if you just stand there it is disconcerting from your aggressor's point of view.. Firstly, you have not backed down or withdrawn but secondly you are not allowing him to read you. If he starts to move in then other options, pre-emptive strike, fence etc come into play.
:asian:

 

[seasoned]

I'm half Italian so I talk with my hands in a very non threatening way. With the hands up and reinforcing my vocal response I am able to stay relaxed but very much in the game.........

 

[Thunder Foot]

I believe in practicing from all positions. We never really know when a confrontation will escalate and "pre-engagement" is such where if you move into A position you are then committing to "engaegment" whether that is passive/aggressive or defensive/offensive imho. One of the most difficult properties I find to address in this type of practice personally however, is the "chiu ying" or facing principle of WC. And while I understand that the 3rd form has some answers for offline response, I still find it interesting to explore.

 

[K-man]

I'm half Italian so I talk with my hands in a very non threatening way. With the hands up and reinforcing my vocal response if am able to stay relaxed but very much in the game.........

I become Italian very quickly if someone is too close.

 

[Danny T]

I tend to favor the 'Jack Benny' but with my hand on the opposite side of the face. Allows a non-threatening, non-dominate thinking man pose yet covers the upper and mid-line gates with slight movement of arms and body.

 

[seasoned]

I become Italian very quickly if someone is too close.

Mamma Mia........

 

[Touch Of Death]

I also like this one too.
The Jack Benny , named after this guy.
Although I keep my lower hand on my elbow , not trapped behind my arm.
It's not as good as the other one I posted , because it doesn't provide an immediate barrier , but at least one of your hands is up around your face ready to attack or defend.
I've used it before when I wasn't quite sure yet whether the other person was a threat or not and something was about to kick off.

I think the hand up by the face is a great idea, but I would probably have my opposite hand on my belly or on its own side of center line. Another important thing to remember is to always greet people, no matter who they are, with the foot forward that you want forward during a time of confrontation.
Sean

 

[wingchun100]

I like the Jack Benny pose, maybe even better than the hands out, palms down. You look like you are still relaxed, but your arms are covering your torso and the one hand isn't too far from the head if someone tries to go for that target.