Police shoot 12 year old with bean bag round

[sgtmac_46]

You're OK with the taser but not the bean bag????
The taser can kill, as evidence by a man who was tasered and died here in Canada recently not to mention other occasions, especially on a 12 year old.
She was bean bagged in the leg and didn't have to go to the hospital.
She was banned from the train before, I say bag her!
Too many teens get away with crap today with nothing, she wasn't hurt so too bad, she had it coming.
Maybe she'll think twice.

As for the Taser......correlation does not equal causation........dying after something happens does not mean that something was the cause of death.

The reality is that the use of Tasers and other less-lethal weapons are correlated with other life threatening events, such as hyper-stimulant usage, usage that on it's own, and in combination with violent exertion, can and quite often does cause death WITHOUT the use of Tasers or other less-lethal weapons.

The fact that Tasers are often employed in combination with subjects under crisis for hyper-stimulant overdose should come as no surprise, as one of the chief symptoms of those kinds of hyper-stimulant is violent bizarre behavior.

 

[sgtmac_46]

While Taser has recently suggested avoiding shots to the chest for the very small chance of a cardiac event -- the Taser is very unlikely to cause serious injury, and would have obtained compliance almost immediately. The vast majority of the deaths (yes, I admit they have happened) that have occurred with the Taser's use have been paired with pre-existing conditions and/or drug abuse.

Exactly right, as for the deaths themselves, they occur at the exact rate they occurred when previous levels of force were predominent, i.e. pepper spray, neck restraints, swarms, etc were used.......meaning the type of force applied changes, but the death rates stay the same, meaning that the variable causing the deaths can't be the type of force used.

As to the extent of injuries inflicted by the bean bag round -- I don't know. In my department, and those with which I am familiar, they're placed at the upper end of the less-lethal options. In all honesty, given the range, I'm surprised that there weren't more serious injuries.

I agree completely.......it's a rather high-end use of force for us as well, and it wouldn't be justified on our force model.

 

[Hudson69]

I will start this out by saying I am not less-lethal certified on bean-bag rounds, something you have to be at my agency in order to carry a L-L shotgun.

But I think that there is a minimum distance on the use of a bean bag round's employment. But regardless I dont know how you can justify this one. Yes I say enforce was/is justified in taking someone into custody regardless of age/ability to resist but it did look easier to simply sling the shotgun and get a control on the legs.

I dont know how anyone feels about use of the taser but I look at that as being another tool that could have better served the purpose (as a drive stun, not probes). But I was not there and I dont know the full history about the girl or the officer(s) involved.

One thing that was pointed out to me, anyone cares to watch again, is that the officers at one point have the girl on the ground then lift her up and then take her to the ground again; why take her down again, they should have gotten her under control the first time.

This is armchair quarterbacking and I never like to see police do something they should not so I will just say that this bears watching to see what the final outcome is.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I didn't say this, but i'm a certified Use of Force Instructor, Taser Instructor, Pepper Spray Instructor, Specialty Impact Munitions Instructor ('Bean bags'.....though they aren't bean bags anymore), 'Pepperball Instructor', etc, etc, etc.........I wouldn't recommend this use of force in this situation just based on what i've read........but as we all know there is usually far more involved than what is printed in news stories........but I would urge caution in the use of Specialty Impact Munitions, as they hit with the force of a 105 MPH fastball.......it's an excellent tool when properly applied, but I recommend muzzle to 10ft only if it can't be avoided.

The Taser is a far more appropriate tool for the situation I read.......as would be Pepper Spray.