Ph.D. program!?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Mark V. Wiley has researched, and trained in a number of Phillipine styles and has written a number of books on their methods and history without a relevant degree.

Don F. Draeger spent his life studying, training in, and writing about Japanese martial arts without a relevant degree and founded a field of study related to it, hoplology.

J. Lowell Lewis is a PhD (from the University of Washington) in Anthropology and Performance Studies and wrote the book 'Ring of Liberation', an antropological study of Capoeira.

Phillip Zarilli is a stage director and theater instructor that has studied and taught Kalaripayyatu extensively and wrote the book 'When The Body Becomes All Eyes', a studied of Kalaripayyatu theory and practice.

You don't need a graduate degree in MA to do the relevant work.

Because of Draeger, you actually could get a degree in Hopology from the U of Hawaii and some U in Japan for a few years.

 

[dbell]

I didn't think you were. After all, you already rightly have "Dr." in front of your name. If you're so inclined. But it still seems to me that you already have access to the information that would make up the curriculum. As is likely the case with many degree programs. I could have read The Grapes of Wrath without getting an English degree too.

To my mind, I'd have to be thoroughly convinced that the classroom experience with a particular teacher or set of teachers was going to be so powerful as to make it worth doing. And, in an academic classroom, I'm having a hard time imagining that.

But to each his own. Not trying to talk you out of it. Doubt there was much danger of that, even if I were.

I guess what I should have said is, I would like to see what their requirements would be for the degree, what their classes would be like (would they be teaching their DC (Doctoral Candidates) a martial art), how long would the program take, what would be the requirements of the dissertation, WHO would be on the dissertation challenge board (martial artist, Phys Ed Ph.D.s?), etc...?

I've been studying and practicing Judo for 40+ years, Kendo and Aikido for 38+ years, TSD and Hapkido for over 25+ years, and a few other arts (or parts of arts, such as specific weapons, etc) for over 20 or more years. How would that play into a Ph.D. program if one was created at an university?

I guess I am too academic... I love going to school...

 

[Carol]

It sounds like your LinkedIn contact would have first-hand experience regarding that, yes?

 

[dbell]

It sounds like your LinkedIn contact would have first-hand experience regarding that, yes?

He does, and I have started contact there, but in looking at the site that gave him the "Ph.D." and reading their listed requirements (Become a Hall of Fame inductey, submit a dissertation (they ranged from 20 pages to 80 pages on average, with a few in a couple hundred pages) and have that dissertation approved by their Board. They are supposedly trying to get accredited, but I have also talked to "Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges" who has said they probably would not accredit this group because they post Ph.D.s which they only accredit up to Masters, and that there appeared to be no set curriculum, and the "North Central Association of Colleges and Schools", which would cover schools HQed in Indiana or Ohio, where this group appears to be centered in, which also says they would probably not accredit this group for what appears to be a lack of a solid curriculum. (That was based on their review of the web site. They have not been petitioned for pre-accreditation or review to either group near as they were able to tell.)

My question to the group here was more, "What is your take on the whole Ph.D. in MA?".

 

[jks9199]

He does, and I have started contact there, but in looking at the site that gave him the "Ph.D." and reading their listed requirements (Become a Hall of Fame inductey, submit a dissertation (they ranged from 20 pages to 80 pages on average, with a few in a couple hundred pages) and have that dissertation approved by their Board. They are supposedly trying to get accredited, but I have also talked to "Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges" who has said they probably would not accredit this group because they post Ph.D.s which they only accredit up to Masters, and that there appeared to be no set curriculum, and the "North Central Association of Colleges and Schools", which would cover schools HQed in Indiana or Ohio, where this group appears to be centered in, which also says they would probably not accredit this group for what appears to be a lack of a solid curriculum. (That was based on their review of the web site. They have not been petitioned for pre-accreditation or review to either group near as they were able to tell.)

My question to the group here was more, "What is your take on the whole Ph.D. in MA?".

Don't forget maintain membership in the "Alliance."

An advanced degree in any sort of martial arts is possible, I guess. But probably as a specialization under something like kinesiology or physical education or maybe (depending on the art and kind of a reach) philosophy. To me, it would have to be more interdisciplinary study in the methods of instruction and training, for example, with supporting studies like anatomy & physiology, and the martial art portion be more of a practicum or experiential learning requirement than a specific study in the field. In other words, it shouldn't matter whether it's TKD or aikido or some other art. Probably not a self-invented/self-founded style, unless there's extensive background to support it...

 

[dbell]

Update about LinkedIn Contact:

So, I asked the guy if I could get a copy of his dissertation, and was immediately challenged with "No one has ever wanted that, including State Farm (no clue why he said State Farm), why do you want it, are you wanting to support my school?" He then demanded to know what National and International organizations supported my MA ranks. My request for a copy of his dissertation, which was named after the style system he created and which was only 22 pages long, was actually because I am in the process of making my "book" for my school, and am wanting to read as many other books/scrolls/dissertations I can to see how others do it.

I replied back listing my belting GM's and any organizations that were involved.. Haven't heard squat back in over two days.....

 

[Aiki Lee]

A PhD in martial arts? Really? Is Master just not an illustrious enough title for them?

 

[terryl965]

People only get defensive when they themself have doubts about there training, sounds like you have enough info to make a good decission.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Twenty two indefensible pages. That says about as much as you need to know, I expect.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not a PhD but a 22 page PhD dissertation :lfao:

You'd be better off with my PhD cut from only the finest brown shipping boxes

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

A PhD from a school or organization without accreditation is worth nothing. This does not mean that a person who possesses such a degree is not a good MA'ist, or that they are ignorant. It simply means that they have a degree with no "purchasing power", if you will. It may, or may not, represent true knowledge and skill...but because the organization granting it has no outside source verifying the value of their curriculum, they are bestowing degrees upon people which are the equivalent of Monopoly money.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I think Ph D. means something along the lines of "doctor of philosophy" on the relevant subject. I think you should have to go through the same grinding process as every other Ph D. student to earn it. There's certainly enough info and history to justify 8 years of study (other than MA training) on the subject but good luck writing an original thesis.

 

[GreatLakes]

Aren't all McDojo sokes using the fake PhD now? Seems very common.

 

[dbell]

Aren't all McDojo sokes using the fake PhD now? Seems very common.

I don't know, this is only the second one I've ever seen.... Still haven't heard back from him after answering his questions either...

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I don't know, this is only the second one I've ever seen.... Still haven't heard back from him after answering his questions either...

From what I have seen there are a lot of them.

 

[GreatLakes]

I don't know, this is only the second one I've ever seen.... Still haven't heard back from him after answering his questions either...

I was looking at the fraud organization called the International Martial Arts Council (IMAC) and their leader/founder touts a phony Doctorate as well as a LOT of their members.

 

[Tez3]

I've never seen any here, thjough that doesn't mean there aren't any. Here to earn a PHD one has to have degree first before you can go for a doctorate. I know a few fighters who have degrees and doctorates but not in martial arts lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy

 

[Tez3]

I was looking at the fraud organization called the International Martial Arts Council (IMAC) and their leader/founder touts a phony Doctorate as well as a LOT of their members.

I've never heard of this organisation before and I'm not American so it's nothing to me but I had a look at it and I think you seem to have something against them. The founder has an honourary PHD, states quite clearly he was awarded it and clicking on a lot of names at random I can't see any others who have claimed doctorates. A couple have degrees in Phys Ed which is a legitimate degree. There seems to be ex marines, police officers and a lot of high ranking martial artists but not phony PHds.
Others who may know this organisation can say whether the martial arts ranks are okay or not but as for the initial allegation I can't find any proof.